DIVE INTO REIKI: I'm super excited to introduce my guest: Pamela Miles. Pamela is an internationally renowned Reiki master and the pioneer introducing Reiki practice to conventional medicine. She's collaborated with academic medical centers such as Harvard and Yale. She has been featured on The Dr. Oz Show, NBC, CBS, CNN, FOX, The Atlantic, US News & World Report, New York Magazine, Allure, and Self. Pamela is also the author of the award-winning REIKI: A Comprehensive Guide.

I went to Pamela's Reiki Clinic at the JCC in New York, and it really helped me find my footing when I first learned Western Reiki and was a bit lost.

PAMELA MILES: I always enjoyed having you [at the clinic]. I just want to clarify the term Western Reiki because I practice Western Reiki… it's not all "woo." I mean, my practice is not new-age at all. All of my Reiki masters were either trained by Hawayo Takata, or their Reiki masters were trained by Hawayo Takada. So, I learned the practice as Takata taught before Americans started, you know, making changes to it, which were mostly ad-ons—although they tried to make something simpler like you don't have to practice, which to me was the most fun part of it was actually practicing. 

DIR: I love that clarification: all Reiki is not the same. I love to hear your origin story. You're pretty unique compared to many beginner Reiki practitioners: you actually had a spiritual practice for years before you discovered Reiki. 
PM: That's so sweet for you to say I'm unique instead of odd. I like that spin on it, Nathalie. So yeah, by the time I came to Reiki practice in 1986, I already had been a student of meditation and yoga for almost 25 years. And I was a meditation teacher. I've lived in India in a monastery for a couple of years, doing really intensive spiritual practices, very serious practice. I was also a professional healer. I worked with people one-on-one doing what might now be called mind, body medicine, but back there was just odd. So unique is the word I'm going to stick with here. And the advantage that gave me was that I already had a daily spiritual practice. I understood that it's not enough to learn a practice; you learn a practice so that you can practice. And that the training that teaches you the practice, the teacher that teaches you the practice, you know, that's so special and you have at least regard if not reverence for that connection. But ultimately, if you don't practice, you're just tossing it out the window. To use marketing language, the practice is how you get that return on your investment. That's how you get your money's worth from your training. 

It always seemed odd to me that people finish one class, and they want to right away go to another class and get another certificate or whatever they get and go to another class. For me, I just couldn't wait to practice. I remember when I first learned to practice like I just couldn't wait till I had some time alone. [I did] my daily self-practice, my full protocol practice, first thing in the morning before I was out of bed. But then, during the day, I also wanted to practice. 

[…]

Compared to the effort involved in the other spiritual practices I had, this was very accessible. It was kind of fast and easy and fast and easy really aren't usually values of mine. But at the time that I experienced Reiki practice from a friend who had just taken the first-degree class, I had a five-year-old, and I was in early in my second pregnancy. So, I like to have spiritual practice every day. I just don't go a day without it. It's easier for me to fast or lose sleep. But I also remembered what it was like, when you give birth and in those early days, weeks, months, depending upon your baby. So, I was wondering how I was going to manage this. And then, I had an experience of Reiki from my friend. I quickly started to have the same inner experience and sensations that were very familiar to me because of all of my experience with spiritual practice, both at home and on retreat and such. Nothing that I experienced during my Reiki treatment was new to me other than the practice itself. This was a new way of becoming deeply indrawn and becoming more aware of my subtle being, my timelessness, and like that.

That gave me a very different perspective on the practice from the beginning. I could see this as a spiritual practice. Of course, we've come to know that. But it wasn't presented to me in that way or understood in the US in quite that way, with that language. From what I know, I think that Hawayo Takata did have that understanding. But she didn't put that language to it. And I'm sure she had very good reasons. You know, we all live in different times; we have to be ourselves of our time and carry the integrity of the practice. At least that's been a value for me. 

Pamela Miles.

DIR: No, absolutely. And as you said, we cannot really understand what it was to be her at that time. And she actually brought it here and spread it. But I think when you said, like, now we're coming to see it's a spiritual practice is still very new for many people watching this podcast. For most, it's still understood very much as an energy healing modality. But it goes a lot deeper. At the end of the meditation, you said something beautiful: bring it into your body and extend it into your life. This is so much more than just getting a session or doing your practice. It is about using it to transform your life. Can you talk a bit about the importance of the body in Reiki practice? 
PM: Well, the body is important because if we didn't have a body, we couldn't practice [she laughs].  

DIR: Yes, because sometimes we go into Lalaland with angels.
PM: People can practice in whatever way is meaningful to them, but the idea is not to disregard our bodies. The purpose of all spiritual practice is to be present and being present means being joyfully in our body. Because if we're not joyfully in our body, if we have discomfort with the body that we have, then we're not present. There's a part of us that's tied up with that, and that's worrying inside of us.

There's confusion or a lack of investigation into what spirituality is and what spiritual practice is in this culture. Many people have never thought of the difference between religion and spirituality. Or metaphysics and spirituality. We see that even more around Reiki practice, where people share their Reiki metaphysics. But if we ask people to see the world as we see it to practice Reiki, I think we're cutting out a lot of people who would otherwise really be interested in the experience and the benefits that Reiki practice brings. And the advantages it brings being uniquely accessible. I mean, it's just the easiest spiritual practice that I've come across. And I've been engaged in spiritual practices since I was a kid. There was a point at which I just said more than 50 years because that's enough.

Spiritual practice is to be present. To be able to live from our hearts. To keep our minds in good health too. I mean, a good intellect is important to discern and be a critical thinker. If you're engaged in anything around spirituality and you're not a critical thinker, you're going to fall for a lot of silly stuff. And you're going to be disappointed, especially if you don't have a daily practice because there are so many disappointments in life, right? I mean, this is something we're experiencing very acutely now with the pandemic and how long it's going on because people didn't think it would go on so long. They weren't quite seeing that this is a game-changer. This isn't a blip. And daily spiritual practice means that we step into our changes on a daily basis. So, we keep ourselves spiritually poised, settled in our bodies. And when something comes at us, we've got the resilience; we can roll with it. We can be creative. We don't forget who we are. We don't forget our timelessness. We don't forget our practice because our practice is the source of our resilience. 

DIR: I really admire people going through this without a spiritual practice. Before the pandemic was officially declared, you started a global practice group. Can you talk a bit about that? 
PM: Yeah. I had just come back. I had a few months with a lot of travel. I was in Europe, and then I was in Mexico, leading the Heart of Practice retreat. And then I was in Curaçao, and I was in Atlanta teaching, and I came back to New York, like March 1st, I think. I could see what was happening, you know? And I knew that people were going to be very frightened, and they were going to be isolated. I could see that we were going to wind up in some kind of a lockdown. Being frightened and being isolated is a devastating combination for your immune system. Either one of them compromises your immune function. And then those together can easily lead to depression, which further lessens people's immunity.

So, I was looking to see how I can support people in their self-practice and give them a sense of community. And since I'm kind of the queen of self-practice…

DIR: You were actually the first person who mentioned self-practice to me is like. I was like, "Am I supposed to have a self-practice? I didn't even know about that! 
PM: Well, I hear that from many, many people. That they've been through a class and either they were told to practice on themselves for 21 days, or it just never was even discussed. Whereas in my training, that's the core. You do a lot of self-practice. So, March 10th, I think, was the first one, the day before the world health organization declared the global pandemic. That was Tuesday at four, and then I added Saturday at 9:00 AM.  

Within, I don't know, six months or something, twenty-five thousand people had registered. And of course, not everybody registered and came back, but still, it was something that clearly was speaking to people. And the important idea for me was mixing care of self with community because everybody else wants to take care of other people, you know? And that's just more of maybe the thing that we need to change in this time. To change is our proclivity for looking outwards, like outwards for the Reiki energy as if it's something separate from us that we have to somehow trick into coming to us.

People say things like, I don't have my Reiki anymore. Well, do you practice? No. [Laughs] If we think of it asReiki practice instead of Reiki energy, it solves a lot of those problems. And also, we always know what's available to us, that accessibility and availability. It's so heartwarming because I get many, many emails from people who say, I've now been practicing every day for a month, for six months, for three weeks for—whatever is a landmark for them, something they never thought they could do. And they notice the difference. So the idea of healing the planet by healing ourselves and making that connection with the quote that we hear so often from Mahatma Gandhi, "be the change you want to see." Not fixing. And to get back to the idea of energy healing and practice: your energy healing is more along with the conventional medical fixing. Whereas spiritual practice reminds us of our intrinsic wholeness and wellness and lets all the disparate parts of ourselves come to rest in our spiritual self. Where we feel our core, and we remember who we are. And then mind, body, spirit, emotions, intellect, you know what, however, you want to name these different parts of ourselves that may be gremlins, they are all like, "Oh yeah!" They feel safe. And everybody behaves better when they feel safe. 

DIR: For me, one of the most significant gifts Reiki practice gave me was acceptance and compassion towards myself. Then by changing myself, I'm a lot kinder to my family and friends. So, as you said, the change starts inside, but it extends to affect people's lives. However, we tend to want to place our hands on other people and change them, so we like them more!
PM: And I think a lot of people feel that way. And, certainly, I've had my moments too. But compassion isn't for anyone. Compassion is a state; it's an attainment. And when we're willing to sit with ourselves and practice with ourselves, and we drop into our hearts, we experience the compassionate love that is our true nature. We feel it in ourselves because that's who we are first, but the way we are with other people is just a reflection of how we are with ourselves. Have you ever noticed that person who really pisses you off? If you're lucky, you'll catch yourself doing the thing that that person does that annoys you so much.

It's always just a reflection of how we feel about ourselves. So, as we feel unconditional self-love, even for a moment, it's a crack in the confusion. Then we just keep coming back to it, and we build a habit. This is another part of consistent daily self-practice that we're building a habit. We're building neural pathways. It's not just a good idea. You know, we're actually making it easier for us to take refuge in our center rather than refuge in our drama, which only creates more suffering. Life isn't always going to be easy. It certainly doesn't get easier when we start practicing, but we are more equipped. We're better equipped to be with the challenge because we feel safer. Feeling safe is a spiritual issue and spiritual attainment. Practice is the only way we can earn that experience and own it.

Otherwise, it's kind of like being on a diet where we're just having to say no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And we're not even sure that this is really going to work for us. But when we practice, especially practice self-Reiki, we experience pretty quickly that something good is happening. Our systems start to settle, and it happens on a discernible level in our nervous system. Wow. That's a big deal and a big difference. 

DIR: I love that you have a science and medical background. I love to now know that a part of my brain is actually changing.

I will use this to segue because you were vital in bringing Reiki to mainstream healthcare. You did fantastic work, and part of it is that you have a very down-to-earth approach and know the science behind it. How did you just wake up one day and say, "Hey, I need to bring this to healthcare?"
PM: I never said that! [Laughs]. [If I had], no one would have listened because I don't have a medical background. I mean, I did original research as an undergraduate. I have a couple of undergraduate degrees, so I've always had an interest. And my mother is a nurse, my sister, my grandmother, you know, so medicine has always been in my background. But I think that what gave me a unique qualification and, and I kind of started medical Reiki, was this marriage of spiritual practice and scientific intellect. And a desire to serve. I was invited to create the first hospital program because I was doing community service at gay men's health crisis here in New York City, offering Reiki training. At that point, it was still all guys with HIV aids. This was before the protest inhibitors and the drugs that have been developed that have really helped people be able to live with HIV Aids.

I mean, then it was really a death sentence, and everybody knew it. So, I started teaching people to practice on themselves and the doctors in infectious disease—that's what the Aids specialists were called—noticed that whenever they had a patient who was doing better than expected… invariably they talked about Reiki practice, and usually they were students of mine. So, the department head at what was then Beth Israel Medical Center, which is now, I think Mount Sinai Beth Israel, was a very forward-thinking interested in integrative medicine and understood that even if we couldn't cure a disease, we could at least still help people. That's why I was asked to come in and present. It was my first medical presentation. My knees were knocking because I knew it would be easy to lose this opportunity. I knew it would be easy to step in the wrong direction, but I just kept my mouth closed. And when I was asked a question, I didn't try to pontificate; I answered the question briefly because I know doctors are very busy. I always tried to answer the question in a way that would make sense to them without compromising the reality of what I was offering. I've always spoken of Reiki as a spiritual practice because, by then, I was a Reiki master. So everything else came out of that. 

In fact, there were a lot of people in conventional medicine who were very interested in what else could be done. At first, it surprised me, but then when I thought about it, well, yeah, these people see so much suffering that they can't help, even now that they can do more in terms of the fixing part. It's almost as if suffering itself is not a medical issue. Again, like safety, it's a spiritual issue. Doctors may help you with your pain, but suffering is a spiritual concern. 

DIR: I love how you put it because you also give Reiki a role that feels very safe and useful in the healthcare environment. Sometimes we communicate Reiki in a way that could feel dangerous to doctors. 
PM: Yeah. I mean, that's such an important point that you're bringing up, Nathalie. That is the communication piece. I've been a writer since I was a kid. So, I've always been thinking about communicating not just what do I want to say, but how can I say it? Not just writing as self-expression, but writing to communicate. And that made a big difference in being able to bridge cultures. And when it came to medical Reiki, the practice itself is the same that I practice everywhere, but the culture is different. I was bridging spiritual practice culture with medical science culture and also bridging lay culture with licensed professional culture. There were lots of places where we could have made a wrong turn, you know? And I was on a pretty steep learning curve. I just kept my mouth shut, and I listened. And then I had my partner there, the staff person at the end of the day, he would always make time for me, and I'd go in, and I'd say, "What does this mean? What is that?" I find it makes a big difference if there's somebody in the hospital or the institution who has at least some experience of Reiki practice because they appreciate the value. 

DIR: You have mentioned some essential things: first of all, to experience the practice. Second, listening, understanding them, and then communicating clearly in your case. Those are great tips for people to follow. 
PM: There's a difference between self-expression and communication. If we want to communicate better, we have to be better listeners. I find this true in my personal relationships, with my one-on-one clients for comprehensive healing sessions, and with students. They'll tell you what they want to know if you listen. I always keep in mind those wonderful words from Steve jobs: it's not the customer's job to know what they want. I can't wait for them to use my language or my concepts. I have to hear their language and recognize what they're saying behind what they're saying. 

So, if they ask what Reiki is, mostly they don't give a damn about what Reiki is. Most people just aren't that conceptually curious; what they're asking is, "Can this help me?" Or "Can this help somebody I love?" They've got some suffering that they're not able to address. And if we, as the Reiki practitioners and especially Reiki professionals, can be quiet enough and safe enough, they'll spill the beans. They'll tell us what they want to know. Then we can say to them what they've been asking us, even though they weren't using the words we would have used. 

DIR: It's all about listening and holding the space, and it's not trying to go, fix it or impose what we think is needed. You have achieved a lot of bringing Reiki into mainstream healthcare. However, right now, we are facing a lot of regulatory challenges. You are part of the group actively fighting these regulations. Can you explain what's going on?
PM: It's a very complex situation. Something that I feel very strongly about is that spiritual practices should not be legislated. It doesn't make sense. Is the government going to require a license to meditate or to pray? Reiki is a spiritual practice. If you even think about the logistics, how would they do that? I mean, that's a whole other thing. But the fact is that there are states that are looking to regulate, and it's never just Reiki practice. In Massachusetts, which is the current battleground, it seems to be all subtle practices, all noninvasive practices that have been recognized as being safe. 

Noninvasive means safe. And that's why there's no licensing for them. Because licensing, ostensibly, is to protect the public. You don't want a surgeon who hasn't gone through medical school with a specialty at the end, right? Because if a surgeon makes a mistake, there are horrible consequences. But as Reiki professionals, certainly, we can hurt people, but it's through our mishandling of another human being. It's not through the practice itself. And that's human nature, and that's not something that can be really controlled through regulation. 

The Massachusetts legislature has bills introduced, which, if passed, would mean immediately that professionals [from all these practices] would become illegal because they would [require] licensing. There's not even a six-month transition period. If it's passed, you know, as it's written. That's the acute crisis, and we need to address that. There's a petition, and I hope everybody will sign that petition and share it. Nag your friends to sign it as well and share it!

But then bigger than that is how can we keep our practice available [and] accessible to the public? We all have different Reiki practices. I think we all want the way we practice to be available to our grandchildren and our great-grandchildren. If the government—and it would be at the state level because the states regulate healthcare practices—takes control of licensing these practices, that means that there will be a small board. And somebody on that board, who probably is a friend of somebody in the legislature, knows something about Reiki practice. That person would be responsible for deciding what the licensing would involve, what we're allowed to teach, what's our curriculum, how we are supposed to practice. Does it have to be off the body? Does it have to be on the body? Do we have the freedom to choose according to what we think is best and best for our clients? 

The solution that I am working to further is, first of all, Reiki practitioners [need] to get savvier about communicating. Because, as you mentioned so astutely before, the way a lot of Reiki practitioners speak about Reiki is very unguarded. For people who aren't of that mindset, it sounds scary. It sounds imbalanced. It sounds like something is taking them over. It's confusing at best. So, for Reiki practitioners to be more savvy in their communication, because a lot of the problems that we're experiencing date back to the way that we've communicated, you know, just kind of reckless and thoughtless. And then reaching out to our state elected officials: calling their offices, making an appointment, [although] you probably won't get to speak to the actual official. Does it matter? You can speak to their gatekeeper. This is their job. And to be able to speak very succinctly, you know, "My Reiki practice is important to me." "I don't know how I could have gotten through my cancer treatment without my Reiki practice. The doctors certainly addressed cancer, but that's what helped me heal in a very profound way." End of story.

People want to make it big. No! Big makes doctors and legislators who are conservative [nervous.] No matter whether they're Republican or Democrat, they're conservative by nature, right? So, when people speak big, in an exaggerated way, it makes them nervous. It discredits us. We want to be very sober and simple. Your little Reiki story. How it helped you get your child to sleep at night. That's huge. But they need to hear from a lot of us, and they need to hear about Reiki practice in a way that's not scary and off-putting. Not going in there and saying, "Well, let me give you some Reiki." No, no, no! Please, don't do that!

The only reason we ever talk about Reiki practice in a situation like that is to shorten the distance between where that person is now and when they're going to have their first Reiki experience. Because once they have an experience, the conversation changes. But let's be realistic, our elected officials will probably not have a Reiki experience. We need to get their attention first of all and then equip them with some simple language and stories so that they see, "Oh yeah, this is important to the people who have voted for me and will vote for me again." 

DIR: And it's also safe. I think those stories you mentioned actually feed the clear distinction between alleviating pain and suffering, the latter of which should not be regulated. 
PM: Yes. There is another option; it's called Safe Harbor law. And it's something that has been conceptualized and actually passed in Minnesota. I think it was in 2005. That means we can practice these noninvasive practices as we see fit within reasonable parameters. Not interfering with any existing licensing but specifying noninvasive practices as not needing to be regulated. There's a woman, Diane Miller, and she has a new book called Health Freedom: The Greatest Freedom of All. And she has an organization helping people in different states to do this. 

DIR: I really appreciate you giving us the tools to help fight for our freedom to practice. I will post the links so people can reach out to their representatives. 
PM: Yeah. And you want to know before you make the phone call. You never know; you could get right through to somebody. It could be a slow afternoon. So, you want to know what you're going to say and rehearse it with friends. Reiki practitioners who know each other can get together and coach each other. It will help make us better Reiki practitioners because we'll be better able to represent what we do to people who aren't like us in some ways but are like us in other ways. [People] who—as his holiness says—want to be happy and want to avoid suffering. It's very simple the human condition.

DIR:  And that is the essence of the Reiki precepts at the end. Sometimes we get very lost when it comes to explaining Reiki practice. But, in the end, it's letting go of anger and worry, becoming more grateful, and finding that space of compassion. It's that simple. So simple that it's very complicated to get there. 
PM: You know, it's true. I tell my first-degree students that the hardest part about learning to practice Reiki is how simple and easy it is. Because all your life you've worked hard to get anything. Believed you should have worked harder for the thing that got away. In Reiki practice, the skill and the effort are really of self-restraint. Just place my hands [places hands on her body]. Now I'm practicing Reiki, and [lift her hands from her body] now I'm not. Hands-on, I'm practicing Reiki. Hands-off, I'm not. If it's that simple in the foundation, you won't get lost in your practice.

DIR:  Then you can actually extend that to your life. Like you lost the subway, you just lost the subway. Don't add, and don't complicate it. Yet Reiki is deceptively simple because you can actually go very deep, just by placing your hands repeatedly day after day. 
PM: I think the only way we can go deep is through repetition. Sometimes clients will come, and they'll say, "I'm with this old issue again." They're so disappointed in themselves that they haven't solved something. I try to help them appreciate it and be grateful that's it's an old issue because if you kept having new issues, you'd be overwhelmed. We have these old habits, and we keep revisiting them with new understanding and greater compassion. Things melt a little bit, and then we're doing better. Then something happens that takes us by surprise or frightens us, and we fall back into these very old habits a little bit. We usually don't fall so deeply. But what if we fell into new bad habits? How would we ever get ourselves out from under the suffering? If we always had to find a new plan, right? 

DIR: Oh, wow! I never looked at it that way. 
PM: It's so human. I mean, people are putting themselves down because they still have these old issues instead of like, "Thank God I still have this." For me, the simplicity of the protocol that I use for my practice, which is just an eight-placement protocol, creates a container for each practice that I can just drop into. I can practice with absorption and abandon. Not focusing, not concentrating, that's working too hard. I placed my hands, and something in me says, "Okay, now we're going home."

DIR: Yeah. I know many people go with intuition, and I'm like, "Learn your protocol because then you can always fall back on it and practice free of anger and worry. 
PM: People who say they practice intuitively, in my experience, there's nothing intuitive about it. They're thinking. They're engaged in a lot of stuff. They feel something and think they have to move their hands there. Just because you feel something doesn't mean it needs any more attention. Wherever we place our hands, it's not just that part of the body that responds. The initial response on a physical level certainly seems to be through some combination of the nervous system, the endocrine system, and likely the endocannabinoid system. These are the three most subtle systems in the body, and they're always playing with each other. So once that is set in motion, that's everywhere in your body. Where is your nervous system not? I place my hands on my chest; it's not just the nerves under my hand that are responding. It's my whole nervous system. This downregulation from the stress response, the sympathetic response to the parasympathetic digest, and heal response, and that involves everything. 

So you're going to feel things throughout your body as your body downregulates itself. We don't have to make that happen. We give our systems the invitation or the necessary information and then let it respond in the way that is meaningful, appropriate, and doable at that moment. And that's something we can't possibly know or even intuit, but our bodies know. We know how to heal. So, I think a big piece of Reiki practice, and certainly Reiki self-practice, is getting our minds out of the way. What we think we know. Being a little humbler with what we think we know.

DIR: Thank you, Pamela, so much for this interview. I learned a lot, and I'm sure everybody reading this will do, too. 

Drawing inspired by the interview with Pamela Miles.

DIVE INTO REIKI: Today I have a lovely guest: Yolanda Williams. Based in California, Yolanda is an Intuitive, Self-Mastery Coach and Certified Medical Reiki Master (CMRM); teaching Reiki, Intuitive Development, Elemental Balancing, and Chakra Mirroring. She trained with internationally recognized Reiki masters in the lineages of Usui Reiki Ryoho and Jikiden Reiki. Yolanda also trained with shamans and other healers of various modalities, increasing her intuitive abilities and understanding of Universal Oneness.
She is the host of the top-rated Reiki Radio podcast, founder of The Alchemy Circle, and creator of The Seekers Circle, which has become an international community of energy workers.
She is currently authoring an oracle deck to highlight how you can deepen your understanding of what it means to be an authentic expression of your true nature. I am super excited about that! So, without further ado, let's welcome Yolanda.
YOLANDA WILLIAMS: Thank you so much, Nathalie. I'm so excited to be here.

DIR: I like to start all of these interviews with the same question: How did you come in contact with the Reiki system? When was the first time this practice appeared in your life?
YW: The first time it appeared in my life, interestingly, I had gone through a layoff. Well, I had the option of keeping my job and relocating to another state, which I didn't want to do. And so, I took my package and spent some time finding myself. I had a whole "Eat, Pray, Love" experience. I went to Europe by myself and was just trying to figure out what I wanted to do next in life. And I knew that I didn't want to go back into finance. And so, I got to this space where I was having anxiety. I was freaking out. I was like, "I don't know what I want to do with my life, and I have bills to pay." And I literally found myself one day like I was imploding because I was just so afraid of not knowing what to do. I was crying in the fetal position on my bedroom floor, which was very unlike me. And I was just saying like, "Please like, God, just give me any direction. Give me a sign. Just tell me what to do. Just help me." This really eerie calm came over me, I stopped crying, and the first thought in my head was to call this woman who had done my astrology chart maybe ten years prior. And when I went to her initially, she was so accurate that it scared me, which is why I never called her in that ten-year window. I was like, "How does this lady know these things about me and my life?" But anyway, since she was the first person or thought that came to mind, I booked a session with her to have my chart done again.
When I went, she told me several things about what was going on in my life. But most interestingly, she said, "Have you ever heard of Reiki? You should definitely go get a Reiki session and learn how to meditate. Because both of those are going to help you with the stress that you're experiencing. And then you can have clarity and decide how you want to move forward." So, I looked up Reiki because Google is my friend. I was like, "This is really interesting!" It just sounded so strange that I thought I didn't really want to have a session as much as I wanted to learn, like what is this. I signed up for a [Reiki 1] class. I signed up for meditation class simultaneously, and then that was it. The door was open, and I started this deep dive into exploring myself.

Yolanda Williams.

DIR: When we talked on another occasion about self-exploration, you highlighted that healing is not that pleasant process we all imagine. Can you elaborate on that?
YW: Yes. I think partially I was kind of lucky at the beginning that I was blind to the whole idea of spirituality. I hadn't read any of the books, or I wasn't familiar with the practices of the teachers. I genuinely went in this blindly. When I started meditation and Reiki, I practiced both diligently because I was so curious. There was this part of me that was very excited at the beginning: "Whoa, I'm experiencing myself differently. I'm starting to perceive different things, you know, just life in a different way." So, I went all the way in, being very, very diligent and just practicing. 
Then I started researching and finding other teachings and spiritual communities. It sounded like the most amazing thing, like you [were] going to be so spiritual and like rainbows and butterflies and feel so great. I was like, oh my God, this is amazing. And again, initially, that's what I was experiencing. I was just fascinated by what I was starting to feel and sense and starting to question what we are in a different way? But then what happened was that I started to really see myself in ways that I guess I repressed or just things I had put on the back burner. Different emotions started coming up. I started having different reflections about my life experience and how things affected me, and what I was behaving from today based on the past. It was just like, "Wait, what is happening? This isn't sunshine and rainbows." It was really hard, like standing in front of a gigantic mirror that I wasn't expecting to appear. But fortunately, for whatever reason, there was a part of me that knew this was part of my healing.
It was like I instinctively knew: don't run away from this. Don't shut down. The stuff is coming up for a reason. So, keep examining what's going on. And then, how does this feel in your body? How does this feel with your energy, and where is the balancing coming in when you sit for practice? And I just want to highlight that it wasn't like a short process, like one week. This was years of stuff coming up, and the truth is it still does. 
I think as a lot of the resistance starts to dissipate, and you start to really see the beauty and the gift of seeing yourself, it's not so hard. It can be uncomfortable, but there's a lot of gratitude around what's coming up. And the understanding that comes from that. But definitely, there were a few years where I felt like, "Is the universe punching me in the face? Like what is happening? I'm doing all the things. I'm practicing Reiki. I'm meditating. Where's the sunshine and rainbows?" Eventually, I came to appreciate [the process]; I understood that it was part of my healing.

DIR: I love a couple of things you mentioned: first of all, being open to experiencing it, whatever length of time it takes. But also the need for balance. Because I think, sometimes we go into the shadow work, and that takes over the light. We need to accept our darkness but temper it with gratitude and compassion, right?
YW: Yeah, that was the thing. The different tools that I had learned through Reiki and meditation really got me through those processes. Because then I started to recognize, "Okay, how do I feel embodied? Oh yeah. I can sit in, use my breath to just calm and come back into a space of clarity. I can look at the Reiki Gokai (precepts) and really examine like, wait, I really am angry right now. I really am worried right now. Why? What's coming up around this, and what are the perspectives that I'm holding? Can I see the beauty in this discomfort and what's happening? So, definitely, the practices and the techniques that are infused in Reiki got me through it. It gave me even more of a reverence for the practice itself. Man, if I would have learned this as a teenager! But you know, it comes when it comes.

DIR: We all have that feeling! I fantasize about teaching how to work with the Reiki precepts to every pre-teen in the world, so they can face puberty and life with some tools. 
What I love about you is that you're relentless in your search for tools and knowledge, but you don't get attached to the tools themselves. You have explored many modalities but have not lost your North. I know that you studied Akashic Records Reading. A lot of people ask me about them and how they can be used with Reiki. Can you tell us your perspective on combining or studying different modalities?  
YW: I always include meditation [in my practice] because I love it so much. And although Reiki is very meditative, I had to learn meditation as a separate thing to really go deeper into it. Because it wasn't a big part of the first classes that I took. I was starting to experience myself differently, and I started to feel sensations differently —whether in meditation or sometimes in Reiki sessions. I would see or feel like colors and things. And I was like, "What is this?" It was very distracting to me because I wasn't being present. I was more curious of, like, what is all this stuff? I realized just to satisfy my mind; I wanted to understand why I was having these experiences.
I took an intuitive development class and studied to have more understanding about how we translate and perceive energy or how we even translate and perceive the unseen. I went through a period of, okay, I am seeing and sensing these different things intuitively, but it was never for me about predictive work. Do you know what I mean? It was more this exploration of my design, like how can I even see or feel these things that aren't tangible, that aren't here in the material realm? I was more fascinated about what we have the ability to perceive. I went deep into that study. I also recognized that once I understood my intuitive nature more, it dissipated some fear around what I may feel or sense because a lot of people do get this heightened sensitivity after practicing anything—I mean, it could just be meditation, Reiki, whatever. 
From there, it was like just going down a rabbit hole. I was literally like Alice in Wonderland, like, "Oh, there's more, give me more, what else is out there?" I met this amazing woman who was an Akashic Records teacher, and I studied with her. It was just another layer of learning, how we access different states of consciousness. I'm a very curious person. I was also curious about why people would want to access a different state of consciousness. But I didn't attach to it the way that people use all these different practices, even Reiki for that matter. All of this work was about discovering more about myself. It was like, "Oh, this is so cool." Being a human is actually kind of fascinating. It was changing me because I was having a deeper appreciation for life and for being and existing. That's what encouraged me to want to share it with other people.
Even when I share with other people—people that I teach or just people I converse with—I'm always very clear: you're not meant to mimic me. Here are the tools that have helped me. See how it opens you up to you. Notice what you start to recognize about yourself. And then, of course, what that may reveal to you about this true nature that we talk about and these aspects of us that are really beneath the surface, beyond "I am Nathalie." Beyond "I was born in a female body." There is just so more underneath that is that unifying quality in all of us. And I think these practices have helped me see that in a broader way. 

DIR:  I love the way you put it: it's is about self-exploration. It's not about getting answers like, should I go to the supermarket now or later? I think you made it very clear and very loving for everyone to understand. I really appreciate that answer. You also mentioned something I always struggled to put into words when we had a conversation, and you did it beautifully. I feel that, as practitioners, we often struggle with the issue of messages. When we work with others, we shouldn't confuse observation and awareness with acting as an antenna, always grasping to get messages. Can you elaborate a little bit more on that?
YW: Yeah. When that initially was happening for me, I did have that pressure on myself because, again, I wasn't even very clear at the beginning of what Reiki was. And so it was this self-imposed pressure of, "Okay, I'm seeing in sensing thing. Am I supposed to tell them? What does this mean? Am I going to translate correctly?" All of this blah, blah, blah, right? I absolutely went through that phase and that stage. But then I got to a place of like, "Hello, come back to observation, let go, be the empty vessel. But there was a lot in my own process that I had to work through. [Letting go] layers of my own ego, of wanting to be right, to do it right. To do a good job. Honestly, I think there is nothing wrong with it. I think there's beauty in that so many people decide to do this type of work and hold space for others. We just genuinely want to do a good job. Like we want to help you. We want to support you. But then again, we attach to these expectations that take us out of the practice itself. I think for a lot of practitioners, it's just part of the process of the undoing and the learning and the bumping against ourselves to see what we're even attached to and the pressures we're putting on ourselves. So, I went through that cycle, and I appreciate it because now I can relate when I meet other practitioners who may have a similar experience. I'm like, "Yeah, it was there. Howsoever you can let that go, let it fall away. You can observe. And it absolutely means nothing. You can just hold space, and that's all it is." 
But I think the greater gift and a lot of the things that I practice outside of just Reiki, and I have to say Reiki is in there as well, was that it all kind of helped me learn more to trust. To let go. To not be so attached. To pay more attention to my own self-observation: what I feel, what I sense, how I feel guided, without making everything something. 

DIR: I think it's so helpful to know this when you are a beginner. Many of us practice for a couple of years, get confused or stuck, and drop the practice. It is advantageous to hear the experience of people who have been practicing for 15 years, 20 years, to understand that, "Oh, this is a stage. I just need to keep a beginner's mind and remember that my practice will keep changing. That's what excites me about Reiki. The more I practice, the more it changes, so I never get bored. You can never get Reiki "right" because the practice changes all the time. 
YW: Absolutely. And that's why a big focus for me is like, here are the tools. To me, they're foundational; they're keys. But the beauty is just don't leave them on the surface and don't get so rigid about being right. I have to practice, right? I have to [be in that space of] observation as I sit with myself and apply these. And not just when I'm sitting, not just in a session, but how do I apply this out in my everyday life? How does the Gokai show up in my exchanges with my friends and my family? Or how does using my breath really help me [in my exchanges] with the world around me? Right. So, it really is to me about how I am being and how these tools are helping me to evolve.
I think that's what keeps me excited and connected to my practice because I know I have no idea how I'm evolving and changing. I know it's this never-ending process. I don't know what the end result will be, but I'm very thankful that I'm changing. I'm very thankful for the ways that I see it has contributed to my life and how it's helping me soften. It helps with my layers of stress and how I handle things and all of that across the board. 
I also think that's why it's important for practitioners to know that if your experience doesn't mirror someone else's, it doesn't mean that you're wrong. You're just going through it your way. And what comes up for us individually is going to look different. How we choose to work through what comes up for us is going to be different. But it's the beauty in that we have these similar practices that help to get us there. 

DIR: That is amazing. We are often pressured to have the same experience as everybody else. If everybody loves a movie and you don't like it, it's weird. With your answer, you are giving the freedom for everyone to experience the practice differently. We will all unfold and evolve differently. And that is the way it should be: we all have different mindsets. I think that is a precious gift. 
You're supporting people to do this through your Patreon and your circle. Can you talk a bit about that? About the importance of supporting practitioners after certification? 
YW: Yeah. Interestingly it started with the podcast. I started the podcast in 2013. At the time, I was like, "Hello, is anybody talking about this stuff?" There wasn't a lot of information available outside of the little pod of the class you took or your immediate community. I was experiencing a lot in terms of stuff coming up and being uncomfortable and questioning, "Am I doing this right?" I realized there had to be other people that we're experiencing this too. [So I thought] if I can just share what I'm going through, and if anyone else is going through it, maybe it will encourage them to stay in the process. And then, we can start having conversations about this and help each other by sharing what we're experiencing and being honest about it. Not think you have to say you have to be peaceful and kind every day. If you're mad, say you're mad, but let's then look at these practices and see how they work? How do they help us work through these different emotions and things coming up?
I just wanted to talk about it and have a community forum, but I didn't even know if anyone would listen to the podcast. I was like, just throw it out there. It did take a while before I started hearing from people who found it and were listening. I really appreciated that. But then I started to realize even more that, for a lot of us, after our initial training, then what? And we go home and practice, but some people didn't even have access to their teachers afterward. When I'm practicing, that's when the stuff is really starting to happen. That's where I need to talk to someone. And this is where my questions are. Because when I'm in class, I don't know what to ask. I'm just learning. But when I start implementing, man, I have questions! 
Over the years, that evolved. I had an opportunity to then start doing some online classes, not Reiki. I don't teach Reiki online, but I started having online classes to support practitioners. I love the back-and-forth exchanges, so I decided to start the Patreon group. I invited practitioners to come in to practice together. But to also share. Let's talk about it. What's coming up for you? What is your experience?
I really believe we learn from each other, but it also gives people this space where they feel comfortable. They feel seen and heard because a lot of people that practice, whatever they practice, they may not have people in their immediate life that understand, that they can talk to about these things. A lot of people are closeted about their practices because they don't want to seem weird or be judged. And so it's like, "Yeah, you have this community, this space. Let's play, let's practice and talk about it." And it developed into a lot of mentoring. But again, it's one of those things that I'm like, I don't know how long I'll be doing this. I don't know what it will evolve into, but I'm doing that for now.

DIR: What you said about being closeted, I think it happens to a lot of us. When I talk about Reiki with my family, they confuse me either for a Hare Krishna or a witch. There is a lot of distrust. So for me, finding a community was significant as well. 
It also happens that when you discover Reiki, you don't want to work anymore and just want to do Reiki. Because it's so beautiful. And then part of the process is to face the fact that we can't all be practitioners. But that doesn't mean we drop the practice. It means your life becomes your practice? My freelance work, my family relationships… they all become practice. Finding the community really supports you in your self-exploration journey.
Talking about exploration, you are working on a project that has me pretty excited: an Oracle deck. Can you tell us about it?

YW: I wanted to create an Oracle deck for a very long time. Back when I was doing my Alice in Wonderland thing, I came across Oracle cards. I was like, "Oh, what are these about? I learned how to read Oracle cards from a woman who had created her own deck. She was a phenomenal teacher. But again, I used the cards every day to go like, "What is coming up in my energy? What may I not be looking at in a particular way?" Just wanting a different perspective on myself. Like, "What is it I'm holding around this situation, and what might support me to understand differently?" So, I worked with cards in that way, and then over the years, I started helping people learn how to read cards.
Then at some point, I became interested in the Tarot. Anyone familiar with Tarot [knows] it's broken up into major Arcana and Minor Arcana. For a very long time was only interested in the Major Arcana, known as the Fool's Journey. As I connected with the cards, I realized, "Oh my God, this is showing the process that we go through." Our own process of coming into a deeper relationship with ourselves and what starts to come up for us. It mirrored a lot of what I experienced through the years of this work. I was fascinated that this story was being told from another lens. And I have to say, Nathalie, that's one of the things why I also liked to study and read about so many different practices and philosophies. Underneath it all, they all seem to point back to the very same thing, which is you, and how you are going through this practice of awakening to yourself and revealing more of that true nature.
I was fascinated with Major Arcana. I got to the minors later. I now have more decks than I will admit on your show, but I realized I wanted just one go-to deck very specific for people interested in self-work. Practitioners or people interested in self-exploration could use this one deck and the different elements that hold that mirror for us. Like, "What is it that I am holding? What is it that I'm not seeing? What is it that is helping me in this challenging situation?" So, I designed the deck itself. I worked with an artist. I had to translate to her the images in my mind. Part of the deck is inspired by the Major Arcana, but then the rest is it's just different stuff going on. It's a deck to support people in their self-work. Because Oracle cards and Tarot were two tools that helped me go deeper into looking at this life experience and how I'm navigating it, I was like, "Yeah, I definitely want to create something that is very intentionally to be used for people who want to do the same."

DIR: Throughout this interview, one thing that keeps coming up is that all these practices are just tools to mirror and discover your true self. Yes, it's great that it fixes back pain, for example, in the case of Reiki, or that it gives you some emotional release. Still, in the end, it's really about self-exploration. Once you see everything through that filter, there is no right or wrong way of doing it. 
However, when you become familiar with so many tools, how do you establish a consistent daily practice? Which ones do you choose?

YW: Yeah. I just want to highlight something that you just said because I think a lot of us—when we are seeking and trying to understand—we "right and wrong" ourselves a lot. There's beauty in people that like you just stick to the purity of whatever particular practices. I like to think that people who practice this way are lineage holders in a way. I think that's very important because that's where the traditions get passed down. We can continue to learn like that information. Those teachings, those foundations are never lost because certain people just want to stick very tightly to the tradition. There's so much beauty in that because if that weren't the case, we wouldn't be sitting here right now talking about Reiki. However, there are some people, [and it's] not right or wrong, that does feel like, "I want all the things." 
I hope people can understand and appreciate whatever they feel called to. Like there is no right or wrong in this. But no matter what class I was taking, no matter what I was learning, I always had just a foundational daily meditation period across the board. And I've made it a point to be very rigid with myself, honestly, about making sure I start my day with medication. If I'm lucky, I get to do it a few times throughout the day. But meditation really is my love. That is genuinely what I'm in love with. So that has always been the foundation of no matter what exploration I do. 
Then say, for example, I studied Akashic records and Oracles and this and that. I give my attention to these practices because I genuinely want to understand them, but the thing is, I don't attach to them. I don't feel like I have to implement everything. How could I possibly practice every single thing every day? 
So, for me, the focus really is what am I getting from this thing that I just learned? It always comes back to how this practice is in service to my goal of understanding myself. How is this practice in service of helping me to see or understand myself in a higher way? And then I take that in, take it in, I take it in. I don't feel like I have to do all the things as much as I appreciate the different perspectives that all of these things have given me. 
But then there's also this thing that comes [with training], say Akashic records, for example. In the class that I took, it was suggested that you practice it every single day for 30 days right after class. And so, I did that because it was part of the practice. What I realized is I was enjoying that. Then that became part of what I did every single day for months. I went into my Akashic records. What started happening again is that instead of just being a surface thing that I was doing, I started to recognize, "How is this changing the way that I see things? The way that I feel the flow of energy? And on and on and on."
It's more like it awakened something in me, but it wasn't that I have to attach and say now I have to keep doing this every day. And I don't do it at all. But because of the connection to the practice itself, you start to embody [its] essence. How do [you] allow this experience, this expression to live through [you]. In a lot of ways, the grip you have on [these tools] starts to fall away. And it's more about how [are they] adding to this expression and what I am starting to understand more about myself. 
So, if you are someone who likes to study many things, maybe don't do 10 classes at once. [If you] want to study this one thing, give your time and attention to that thing, practice it, implement it. Otherwise, what are you studying for? What's the point? 
Don't give yourself this pressure of right and wrong as much as, "How do you feel guided in this practice?" Some people I know study many things and continue to practice all those things, but that's what works for them. And it's a beautiful thing. It's just that that wasn't my personal guidance. I'm just more of a "how can you help crack me open type of girl," and then let's see what happens. 

DIR: That is excellent guidance. We don't need to practice all of them every day. We just need to go deep to get that gift meant for us. And then we can choose what we keep. These practices look very different on the outside, but they all point towards the same thing at the end. I think we learn from everything, not just from spiritual practices like Akashic records or Oracle, but also from working a day job or walking on the street.
YW: Yes. And I think that's the beauty of this community as well—[although] a lot of people have a lot of judgment around it. It's beautiful that you have so many different people practicing and people called to so many different things. You have this variation of tools and elements available to anyone and what you feel called to. For example, I know a lot of people who work with Reiki and crystals. I have a lot of crystals, and I love crystals, but they're not necessarily part of my sessions. But there are people who feel drawn to that. It fascinates me the way this work expresses through everyone uniquely, you know what I mean? Or some practitioners may like to incorporate a reading or do Akashic records. Then they'll implement energy work as part of the process. People have to allow things to express through them the way that they feel called. That's amazing to me. And I like variety. I know that everything is not for everyone, and we're all going to be drawn in and inspired by even different things. That has been why I appreciate learning different things, reading about different things. I love to interview people because I want to hear, "What is your practice, and what has it done for you?" When I interview people in their different practices, it's not because I practice or what I'm interested in. But I understand that there are other people listening that may be held to that. So, let's have a conversation and see what's inspiring all of us. 

DIR: It's beautiful because we're billions of people, and everybody will have a journey, right? There is no one way; there are 7 billion ways.
YW: Yes, exactly.

DIR: Your answers have been very enlightening. I love how articulate, precise, and kind they are. Changing gears a bit, however, I would like to ask you about a Reiki "oops" that gave you valuable insight into Reiki practice. 
YW: I can think of two off the top of my head. One, the biggest Reiki "oops" for me at the very beginning was trying so hard. I mean, I was trying hard. I was attached to the outcome, and this was more so in practicing with other people. And you know, that whole thing that a lot of practitioners go through, like, "Is this working? Is it right?" I was so focused [on that,] not trusting, allowing, and, you know, being an empty vessel. I was putting a lot of pressure on myself, and it was so distracting. And then there was this one day. I'll never forget. One of my friends wanted me to do a session. And I literally had the thought—because I was so frustrated with not knowing how it was working—"I don't even care." I literally went into the session with this feeling of "I couldn't care less," let me just lay my hands on them. I was so detached. It was the most amazing experience. It was just this flood of energy. And I just had this realization in the moment of "you got out of the way, you stopped trying." And that's the whole thing: stop trying, just sit, breathe. That was a huge lesson about just being an observer, just staying with my own breath. My focus in that particular session was more so on me. The cultivation of the life force that I was experiencing in my own being allowed me to be free in the flow of life force I was feeling, letting go of my attachments, surrendering. To let go of the yip yap [in my head] about rightness. To let go of the anger and frustration. That was huge for me. So while I do care when I show up for a session, I'm not attached to the outcome. 
Another thing is, I have encountered over the years not just working with different practitioners but in conversation with a lot of practitioners that a lot of people just want to get it quick. I don't know if they want to awaken quick or want a quick result. I'm not sure what the desire is, but they want something to happen quickly. Right. So many people will do things where they'll do, like Reiki 1, 2, and 3 within a day. And then, on the other side, they feel like drunk. It's almost like an energetic overload that happens when people ingest, ingest, ingest because "I want to do this fast."
That was also a big lesson: an observation of integration. Like, be easy. There's no rush; take it in. It's not just a surface-y thing. The truth of the matter is when you start connecting with yourself and when you start implementing these practices, it can't not change you. The energy that moves can't not have some type of impact on you. Instead of trying to overstimulate yourself or your system, [be] kind. It reminds me of enjoying the meal: you don't have to eat so fast, just enjoy the meal. You'll notice the flavors, the textures, you know what I mean? It's different than wolfing it all down, and then you're full. And you're like, "Oh, I feel sick. I don't know what happened." I think our practice in a lot of ways can be that way, but I have learned the beauty of being patient. Not just in what we ingest, but being patient with ourselves and recognizing how the work is helping us to evolve, shift, change, balance, bring stuff up, and work through the layers. Just take a breath and take your time.

DIR: I love those two words: patience and integration. It reminds me of a story recounted by Sharon Salzberg of when she went to study meditation in India. She was practicing Metta meditation for a month or so, focusing on herself. She was feeling that it wasn't really changing her life and was a bit frustrated. Then one day, she let something drop. And she heard her inner voice say, "You are a klutz, but I love you." It is such a human, beautiful perspective. It changed me because I had always wanted Reiki to solve everything in my life. Self-acceptance was not even on the map.
We expect the changes to be big and fast, but they actually show up in the small things. When we break a glass, and we don't spiral out into self-hatred. Or you call someone by the wrong name, apologize and let it go versus fretting for hours. These are the indications your practice is working. Practicing kindness towards ourselves and others. 
YW: With you saying that, Nathalie, it reminds me of [Frans Stiene, a teacher we both have in common.] One of the things I really appreciated about having him as a teacher is that he has such lightheartedness. There's such a playfulness to him in his classes. I think when we come into this, a lot of people think we have to be so serious. Like, this is serious. And while it's serious business doing your healing, playfulness can be a part of it and actually is quite helpful in the process of not being attached, being more forgiving, and being more compassionate. The laughter has to be present. 

DIR: Then the practice becomes so dry, right? And the reality is so opposite. Like right now, there are garbage trucks under my window, a concert, people screaming. Or posed like on Instagram, where everyone meditates looking into the horizon with perfect wavy hair flying in the wind. It's not perfect, yet it is. 
YW: Yeah! I think sometimes one of the maybe basic questions that we can ask ourselves along the way is, "How am I experiencing this?" Like on the other side, not while you're meditating itself. Just taking a breath and noticing like, "Am I using this essence of calmness and stillness? Am I able to apply this when something triggers me out in my life? When I recite and chant the Gokai, am I really feeling into those words? Do I really allow them to be like little mantras and remind me of my perspective as I'm interacting in the day?" 
I mean, again, it comes down to patience, slowing down, observing how the practices are actually impacting your life. It's not just information to take in to be able to regurgitate, to know all the spiritual jargon. No. [Observe,] how is this actually? Why did you study this in the first place? That's like one of the things I ask: why do you want this in the first place? And then how are you allowing this to support you in experiencing that?

DIR: I taught a woman recently, and she told me she could not feel the energy but felt the practice was working because she didn't scream at her kids so much. She was doing things she had not dared to do before. I loved this. 
But back to your Oracle Deck, do you have a timing for the launch? I'm already hitting that pre-buy button! 
YW:  Thankfully, I have a friend who is a graphic artist, and she has helped me a lot. So everything will be submitted for printing in September. And then it's supposed to just be a few months after that. So hopefully [it will be ready] in the fall, but definitely by the end of this year.

DIR: Awesome. That's going to be my Christmas present! Thank you so much for being on the podcast and sharing your beautiful wisdom. 
YW: Thank you so much. 

Yolanda’s drawing.

Oliver Drewes is a Reiki master practitioner based in Germany. He came across the practice in 2010, completed the first and second level of Western-style Reiki training in 2011. In 2015-2016, Oliver learned the first three levels of training of the Gendai Reiki Hō school. In autumn 2016, he completed the master and teacher training directly with the founder of the Gendai-Reiki method, Hiroshi Doi Sensei, in Japan, after repeating the previous levels of training.

Oliver is also the founder of Holistika, a book imprint that has published the work of Doi Sensei (for German-speaking countries), Frank Glatzer, and Frans Stiene's translation of The Inner Heart of Reiki (he was also the actual translator).

In addition to teaching the Reiki system, Oliver has given lectures at the ProReiki Regional Group Cologne, the professional association ProReiki, and the Reiki Convention.

DIVE INTO REIKI: Hi, Oliver. Thank you so much for accepting my invitation. I like to start every interview with the same question: how did you come in contact with Reiki practice? 
OLIVER DREWES: My Reiki way began when I was very young. Sev brought me to Reiki [the first one was the] funeral of my great grandfather. At this time, I had a very special experience. I thought that I had seen him. So we all had been at the cemetery. It was on [a] hill. The sun was very strong, and suddenly I had the impression that I had seen him and that he had seen me. And at that moment, I lost consciousness, and my father saved me from falling. And all the years after, I had the impression that I had seen him. I never said I had seen him. I didn't want to be a liar. I was never sure whether I really saw him or not. This occupied my mind for more than 25 years.
In 2006, my parents gave me a phone call that there was a lady on the television. She brought people back to former lives as well as to experiences in their childhood. And they told me this could be a chance to review what I experienced. So I came in contact with this lady, and finally, she invited me to train. To my surprise, I got it as a gift from her… it was the training to become a practitioner in regression therapy. It was a nice experience. I could bring people back to their former lives, but I had not been able to do this myself. I was not able to give up control. I needed to be more relaxed. 
I decided to go to a healing practitioner school in Germany to learn more about relaxation methods. There was an advertisement for Reiki. I was very interested—healing with hands sounded interesting. I went to the south of Germany because there was one seminar just one or two weeks later. When I'm interested in something, I'm not looking when it's [happening] nearby. I just want to do it right now. So, I went to the South of Germany [for] my first Reiki seminar. I'm still in contact with and friends with that teacher, but it was not the purest Reiki I could experience. It was a mixture of Reiki and healing with gemstones. I was more interested in the pure Reiki. I changed teachers, and then I found myself in a seminar, which was a mixture of Reiki and healing with angels. It was not the pure Reiki I was looking for either. I decided to continue my Reiki way when the right time came, and I would have found the right teacher. 
In 2013, I went to London to the Arthur Findlay College because I wanted to know more about mediumship and the vision I had of my great grandfather. We learned a special scanning method. I could see people's problems and pains. It was very extraordinary. I went to the tutor and said, "Oh, I have seen…." He said, "No, stop, Oliver. Just get used to it. You have not seen; you have been shown. That's a big difference, but anyway, it's a gift, and you should think about what to do with it." And then I said, "Well, if this is a gift, maybe it's the right time to continue my way with and dedicate myself to healing again." 
[Back] in Germany, I've been looking for a new teacher in stool and found one in Cologne, not far from where I live. Then everything started flowing. After that, I got the chance to go to Japan to learn from Hiroshi Doi [founder of Gendai Reiki.] I had the chance to translate his books. And later, I had the chance to be a speaker at different events and even got to know Frans Stiene personally. With him, I had the chance to organize trips to Japan. 
My mother later told me that she had an experience that her grandfather—that was my great-grandfather—saved our family from an accident. She saw him making signs not to do certain things. And Her telling me that made it easier for me to accept my experience than any regression therapy or other [modalities.] I didn't need anymore. It was clear to me that these things could happen. But, anyway, it brought me to Reiki and where I am today.

Oliver Drewes next to Mikao Usui’s memorial stone.

DIR: You studied with eight Reiki teachers. Do you advise people to study with different masters, and what did you gain from doing so?
OD: As I mentioned first, I was looking for pure Reiki. It was fantastic to combine healing with stones. I think if someone is doing this during a treatment, it's great. But if you tell students about this, it's like giving the association that Reiki power wouldn't be strong enough and requires healing stones. The same with angels. That was not my way. So there, I already needed to go to a different teacher. Learning Gendai Reiki [gave me] more of the Japanese perspective. The style that I'm teaching and that I learned from Hiroshi Doi is nice. It's a combination of the Western and the traditional Reiki. [It includes] working with chakras, a great tool, but it's not the [authentic] Japanese way. Chakras come from India.
I wanted to go even [deeper] into the roots [of the Reiki system]. I found Frans Stiene. I really appreciate his style and his teachings. He is learning from priests in Japan to see [the practice] from a different [perspective]. You don't need to be a Buddhist or know very much about esoteric Buddhism; you can have any religion [to practice Reiki]—that's clear. But [understanding Buddhism] gives a greater understanding. As we didn't [grow up with] Japanese culture, some things have to be explained to understand what was meant by [the teachings.] 
This is how I came to the first four teachers. Then I said, "Okay, let's have a look at other styles." I wanted to have a look at Jikiden Reiki. So I taught a friend of mine Gendai Reiki Ho, and I studied Jikiden from him. There are many similarities, but some things are quite different. And then, I had the chance to see the Reiki style of Chris Marsh [a renowned UK Reiki master who passed away at the beginning of 2021]. I took every opportunity to [study] different teachers and different styles. I think this is okay. Some teachers are very strict and say, "If you learn from me, it's only me and my style." And maybe even, "My style is better, and don't look at others." But I mean, if you're going to school, you have a teacher for English, you have a teacher for mathematics, and a teacher for biology. You get knowledge from different teachers. Why not in Reiki? I mean, Reiki has the same origin. Every teacher has their own way. 
Hiroshi Doi, for example, compares Reiki with climbing Mount Fuji. You can go until the middle, and you decide just to be in the healthy soul. But you can continue and take the spiritual path. And when you do that, you may reach the top, Natsumi Ritsumei—a state of inner happiness and inner calmness. Every guide has his group to bring them to the top of Mount Fuji. And everyone has their way. Maybe one way is straighter; maybe the other has more views; maybe one is more exhausting, one is more relaxed, but all guides have different routes to go to the top of the mountain. It is the same with Reiki teachers. All are guides to bring their students to the top, bring them to a point to reach Natsumi Ritsumei [following] the way [that worked for them.]. There is no wrong way—they're all alternative ways [that come from] the same origin.

DIR: I love this POV beyond the metaphor. Sometimes in the Reiki community, we remain separate because we practice different styles instead of coming together to learn from each other. We should encourage the exchange between practitioners. 
OD: Yeah. I had a couple of times every month a meeting with that friend. Both of our students would come, and we had a Reiki exchange. Someone said to me, "I'm not very happy with the Jikiden [style]. I don't want to deal with that." And I said, "Sorry, this is my friend. We do this in cooperation. We want to make something clear: it's not one style against the other. We are doing this together. We are one Reiki family."
You can see Mikao Usui as the founder and then compare it with a big tree. He is the root. And then the tree has many branches, many leaves. It's not one against the other or one better than the other. And if there is a possibility for cooperation, I think this will offer students and participants a better understanding. It allows us to see some things from a different point of view.

DIR: You also mentioned traveling to Japan. When I traveled to Japan, I understood Reiki to a whole new level. You organize trips to Japan to follow Mikao Usui's path. Can you tell us how you came up with that idea? 
OD: [After] my first Reiki seminar, the teacher offered to choose between different raw quartz stones. That was a tradition in his style. I chose one, and it happened to be formed like a pyramid with three sides. But on one side, there was a little [defect]. And I said, "Why did I take this one?" I'm a perfectionist. And it could be so perfect if this [minor defect] wouldn't have been there. And then there was like a big voice saying, "Oliver, this stone is for you always to remember to take things as they are, and not as you want them to [be.]." I was surprised, [I kept] looking around [trying to find] who was speaking. It was an experience. At that time, I had dreams. One of those dreams was that I saw myself in Japan, organizing trips for people from all over the world. But the interesting thing was that they learned Reiki and had a seminar with a Western teacher. 
When I woke up, I said, "Well, that's strange. If ever in the future, I would bring people to Japan to learn Reiki there, the country of origin, of course, I would look for a Japanese teacher. Why should I have a Westerner teaching Western people in Japan? That does not make sense! So, 15 years later, more or less, when I was there with Frans [Stiene, the co-founder of the International House of Reiki], I said, "Oh, stop! That's exactly what I was dreaming. It came true." I was not thinking of this [dream] all the time. It was not a [goal] for me, but when I found myself [in Japan] with the group, I said, "Oh, okay! I remember that dream. That's interesting."
[The idea for the trip] came [about] first after having been in the class of Hiroshi Doi in 2016. I wanted to organize trips to Japan, including a seminar with Doi. I wanted to translate from English into German for my group. But it happened that the schedule from November was changed to September because there was an unveiling ceremony of a special Memorial stone that Hiroshi Doi had put in the birth town of Mikao Usui, and all the plans changed. I couldn't go in November. The American group was going in September. Later, Hiroshi Doi said, "Oh, I don't know if I would do this the next year. I was born in 1935. I'm quite advanced in age. I'm not sure." I looked for alternatives. I [talked to] Frans, and we said, "Let's do this together." 
I had everything organized. I already had organized trips to India, Sri Lanka, and Bali for people interested in spirituality. I already had some experience. Many of [Frans'] students joined us in 2019. We had a wonderful group with people from New Zealand, Australia, the UK, Italy, and [many] from the US. It was an experience to be in the country of origin for them, to practice Reiki there. I think it's a really different energy, especially when you find yourself on Mount Karama or even Mount Hiei, which is the place of origin of Buddhism in Japan. You can feel it there on the mountain with every step you make, every breath you take. There is so much of that original energy. It makes a difference. 
The other aspect was that it was so nice that people from all over the world [formed] one group. We're part of the community, not only in our local town, in our country or continent, but everywhere. Friendships [were] started between the seminar takers and [with the] Japanese Reiki master that I presented in the meeting with Hiroshi Doi. It was so great for me as an organizer to see that. 
I think doing this as a kind of pilgrimage—to see where Mikao Usui went to school, where he lived, the history of this town, and how everything developed gives you a better understanding [of the Reiki system.] You [get] the picture. Later, [when you teach a] class, you can show the students, "Look, this is where [Miako Usui] went to school. This is where his grandfather and uncle had the sake manufacturing." You can teach from your own experience. I think this makes a difference. Normally as a teacher, depending on where you learn, you teach what you have learned. So, it's an indirect knowledge [based on] the experience someone else [had]. But if you're in Japan experiencing this yourself, meditating on Mount Kurama and feeling that energy, it's your direct experience that you're teaching.

DIR: Direct experience can mean going to Japan or doing the work where you live: practicing or reading books. However, I have to say, there is something exceptional about being in Japan. For me, it was understanding the power of the simplicity of the Reiki system versus complicating it. When you sit in meditation in Japan, you feel that it is perfect as conceived with your whole body, mind, and soul. 
You also had a great story from one of your trips to Japan about how, as practitioners, we think the grass is always greener in other countries, especially when it comes to Reiki in healthcare. 
OD: Yeah. People from my group from the US [met] a Japanese Reiki master that I presented, and they said, "Ah, it's so different here in Japan. Reiki is so well accepted, and you're doing this in every hospital. It's so different." And the [Japanese said,] "That's not really the case. We are fighting for acceptance. It's not in every hospital, as is the case in Germany. There they do this in every hospital, and it's so well accepted." I said, "Well, no, not really. There are some hospitals [offering] Reiki, but it's not common. It's not in every hospital, and it's not accepted everywhere. It's more and more popular, but we in Germany read that is the case in the US, that we'll have so many hospitals working with Reiki and it's so well accepted." So, each of us believed that [things were better] in another country. 
It's a great vision for the future: that all over the world, [Reiki] is much more accepted and gets [to be a] standards therapy in hospitals. But at the moment, we had to experience that it was more a dream than a reality.

DIR: What would be your advice on communicating about the Reiki system to be more accepted in hospitals or community centers in our countries.
OD: There is a teaching in Gendai [Reiki] from Hiroshi Doi: focus on Reiki, be aware of that energy, be with it, but do the best you can and leave the rest to the universe. And I think at the same, we can, of course, have the [goal] to have it more accepted in hospitals; we can talk about this with our friends, with our relatives, we don't have to hide… but we cannot force it. It will come with time. So I think there are some lessons from the universe, [and one of them] is patience. We just need to be patient. I think in the next years and decades, [Reiki] will develop. 
What we can do [meanwhile] is to come to the core of Reiki. I mean, hands-on healing is great. A treatment is fantastic, but for me, the core is the Precepts [or Principles]. If you focus on that, if you integrate this into your daily life—not to be angry, not to worry, and to be thankful—you attract things, that's [the] secret. 
Normally you get something and, after [you] receive it, you are thankful. But the secret thing is, first of all, being thankful [beforehand]. And then, with the law of resonance, you attract exactly this into your life. So be aware of your frequency, be aware of your thoughts, because you're attracting exactly more of that. 
If everyone dedicates more [attention] to the precepts, sharing this knowledge, and integrating them into their lives, we automatically have a different understanding and communication with each other. And finally, even how we treat our environment, our planet, the respect between others and all beings. I think that makes a difference. We are a bit like a light in the darkness if we are caring for Reiki. The people who never had any experience [with it] see us [and ask,] "Why are you behaving like this? What are the things you are convinced of?" We can just be an example and then [share with] other people what our understanding is. 

DIR: I think it is so important what you mentioned about using the Reiki precepts as awareness tools for what's going on with yourself versus following them like if they were commandments. Thank you for sharing that. It's an important insight to help us integrate Reiki into our daily life. And talking about this, what is a gift Reiki has brought into your life? 
OD: Reiki really is a gift. I think it's so nice to work with it. It's so nice to teach this to other people and see what a difference it makes in their lives. They tell me about their experiences with family with their health; this is such nice feedback. 

DIR: You learned many modalities and are a medium. Why did you decide to stick to traditional Reiki when it comes to teaching? 
OD: I think [the modalities and mediumship] are personal experiences. So, when I'm teaching, for example, Gendai Reiki, then I'm teaching just Gendai Reiki. And I tell people there are other teachers, and they have different points of view. But at that moment, I'm focusing on [Gendai's] teaching to give this style's pure content. If I'm teaching what I've learned from Frans—he works from the hara, less with chakras—then it's different teaching. Of course, I can show them that I learned from other teachers with different points of view, but I always tell them this is the pure teaching. If you are teaching this style or that style, keep each clean, don't mix them.
Of course, everybody is free to create new styles. But I think if you just keep it clean, then it can survive in this original nature. If everybody means to create something new just for having his name or his style, it's possibly more a speck of the ego and not the [pure motivation to share Reiki.

DIR: The ego part is key, right? We may have a spiritual practice, but It doesn't mean our ego is always under control. 
OD: I think too that people [should not] expect anything. If they heard that some people had some sensations or visions during the attunement, they shouldn't be disappointed when they did not have them. They should come without any expectation. And then it's even much more worth it if something happens or they experienced something. And I think it's the same with Reiki. There are people who are [innately] connected to the spiritual world. [During] a treatment, [their] hand is attracted to where it is required. Others might hear like a voice saying, "Well, look for the knee as well or care for the shoulder." Every person is different, and every treatment is different. It's not that you need to be a medium or that you need to work with mediumship [to have intuition]. It's independent of Reiki. You can have it, it's an advantage, but it's not a disadvantage if you don't have it. And many things develop in time. The more you're doing Reiki, the more treatments you give, the more self-treatments you have, you're more in that energy, the more things change and develop you as a person and advance that whole thing.

DIR: I think you said two essential things. One is expectations getting in the way of experiencing the practice. And the other thing is that there is one practice, but we all will express it differently. How do you try to control your expectations from the practice or life in general?
OD: Sometimes you tell the students, "You have an intention, there's something that you would like to reach with Reiki, but you don't need to focus so much on it." In Japanese, it's the "nen," the will to do something. On one side, you have an intention to do something; on the other side, you should do this without any intention. So sometimes it's difficult to understand. So I think it's important to have a [goal], to say, "I want to reach this for my clients," but then not to focus so much on it. So just let the Reiki energy flow and work. Once the [goal] is defined, it's good. But thinking all the time about the [goal] is not that good and may distract you from just being a channel and letting Reiki flow. You are not the one to do something. You're just one to channel the energy. And in the end, it's the person who heals himself. We're just creating room for the Reiki energy to work and where all of this can happen, but we are not responsible for its success.

DIR: I love what you say because I think most of us fall into two extremes: we want to control the outcome too much, or we're unaccountable. It's a balance of aiming in the right direction and then letting go. Like archery in a way: you aim and then let that arrow go and do its work. But that is something that takes a lot of practice. 
OD: I think an important of life is not to give up. So if you have had [Reiki 1 Level training], just continue; read your manual again, practice, practice, practice, and don't stop practicing. You have to go on with that to be in it. I think that's a challenge for some people. In these times, many people have a seminar here, a seminar there. Want to have more knowledge from this, from that. There are so many different aspects that you can learn, but if you [need to] focus and keep practicing. Don't stop practicing. Integrate this in your life. I think this is the key to reaching something in the end.

DIR: Yes, we need to imprint that in our minds: do not give up, keep practicing. Changing tracks, you are also a publisher of books about spirituality. A lot of people want to write their own Reiki books. Do you have any advice for them? 
OD: Well, the whole publishing world changed a lot in the last ten, 15 years. I have two publishing houses at the moment. The first I started in 2002…. And then I had to launch the second editorial or publishing house because the [readership] was different. The first one was about keeping animals and pets in your house. And the other one was about spirituality. Two different kinds of readers, so I decided to have two different publishing houses. [I've heard] from colleagues that have been writing Reiki books successfully in the past. Ten years ago, they wrote a book, and if it was successful, they sold twenty to thirty thousand [books.} Then they had a second, third, and up to eight different editions. 
It's quite different today. Even the most successful authors of Reiki books—many of them I know personally—are happy to reach a quantity of maybe 500 books in the first year. These are not the numbers that we were used to in the past. It's is a challenge if you are printing something, not the book on-demand [model]. Book on-demand is nice if you want to have something saying, "I have written a book." You can never get it to the wholesale markets or the shops because you have to discount. And this discount is so big that in the end, the printing costs are higher than the discount you give. So, it's absolutely impossible to work professionally with a book on demands—you can just have this as a hobby. You can have it as personal satisfaction, the fact sheet, but you can't really sell quantity and cover your costs. 
If you do it the professional way, that means you need to print books. To print means quantity. So you have the printing machines running, and that's the most expensive thing. If you print 2000 copies or 3000 copies, that does not make [much difference in the] price. Just to keep the machine running, that's the main cost. If you divide the total cost by the quantity you have made, the more books printed, the more attractive the price. In my experience, I need to print at least two to three thousand books to have a price that's good enough to [sell] wholesale and to book shops. But, if you are just selling quantities of 500 [books per year], you need six years to sell them all. You need to store them in a warehouse. 
Sometimes with other [kind of] books, you're more successful. You have higher quantities. But Reiki [has become] especially difficult. Just this year, I've been speaking with many bookshops and [asking them why they don't] have one Reiki book on the shelves. Why is that? They said, "Well, it's not popular. At the moment, we sell books about yoga, yoga Nidra, yin yoga, but Reiki is a thing of the past. It's not popular. It's not fashionable." So for me, Reiki is not about popularity or fashion. It's still important these days, but that's the thinking of many shop owners. They just carry one trend and then another trend. Reiki is something they sold successfully in the past, but most of them are not interested in having this on their shelves [now]. So it's quite difficult to do Reiki book projects at this moment, at least from my experience here in the German market, which includes German-speaking countries like Austria and Switzerland. Maybe it might be different than other parts of the world.  

DIR: I appreciate your answer. I think it's also great to know that you can write your book, go ahead— just don't expect to become a bestseller or a millionaire!
I have one last question. I ask everyone I interview the following, "What is your biggest Reiki 'oops'?" 
OD: Yes, there is one story that I would like to share. It's something I tell my students in class—it's nothing I must be ashamed of. Of course, it's a mistake, but I think a mistake is just a bad word for an experience. I think as humans, we're making experiences and not mistakes. And from that, we can learn, and others have the chance to learn. 
I was a Reiki Level 2 student, and we were asked to practice distance healing. We found ourselves in a room with ten people, five were giving distance healing, and five were receiving. I had to work with a gentleman named Peter from Cologne, and he was sitting on his chair about ten meters away. So I started by being aware of being connected with Reiki, then gave this treatment to Peter, starting with his head and letting Reiki flow. Then I thought, "Oh, that's a nice lady on my side. She's attractive." I was single at that time. "Oh, she has beautiful eyes. How would it be to be with that girl? We would both be Reiki practitioners, not just one part of a couple. We could share this. We could have a nice walk. How would it feel to hold her hand." And then I went, "What are you doing? You were asked to give distant healing and not to care for the lady at your side!" I said, "Well, how much time did I lose with that? Okay. I won't do the upper part of Peter's body. I will just start with his legs." So, I gave this treatment to the legs, to the knees, and the feet. When Peter gave me feedback, he said, "I have to ask you something? I fell your presence on my head. It was so strong, but what happened then? It's like, Oliver left the room; there is nobody there anymore. Hello, Oliver, where are you? Nothing. And then you continue with next with my legs. In the meantime, what did you do? Where were you? I said, "Peter, first, congratulations, you are able to feel the Reiki energy. What happened was that I was not focused. I was thinking more about the lady at my side than giving you a treatment. I'm very sorry. Let's see this as a lesson!"
When I'm telling this [story] to my students, I say there are five different things we can learn from this. The first thing is Reiki energy exists. The second is you can feel Reiki energy. The third is you need to be focused when giving Reiki. So when you give Reiki, just give Reiki, don't think about what to cook in the evening, what to buy tomorrow. Be in the moment, be in the now. The fourth thing is to be aware that focusing matters, that it makes a difference. And the last thing to be aware is that skilled clients could read us.

DIR: I love that story. As you said, it gives you so much teaching material! Thank you for sharing that, Oliver. 
OD: You're welcome.

DIR: I want to thank you for your time for your kindness. This interview is so filled with wisdom, and also I love how organized your mind is compared to mine. I appreciate how articulate and clear your answers were. Thank you so much.
OD: Well, thank you very much for inviting me!

Drawing inspired by Oliver Drewes (© nathalie jaspar)

Maria Kammerer is a full-time Reiki practitioner, teacher, and community leader based in Cincinnati, Ohio. Her Reiki journey started in the year 2000, and she continues to practice and develop her understanding of Reiki. Maria is a graduate teacher with the International House of Reiki and the founder of Attune the Art of Reiki. She is also the host of Be the Light podcast. We discuss her origin story, making a living out of Reiki, the importance of community in developing our spiritual journey, and tips to deepen our practice. 

DIVE INTO REIKI: Maria, thank you for accepting the invitation!
MARIA KAMMERER: Thank you so much for having me here. I'm so excited to chat with you and your lovely community. Thanks!

DIR: I wanted to start with the question I ask every interviewee: when was your first encounter with Reiki? What was your origin story as a Reiki practitioner?
MK: I love thinking about an "origin" story. It's like a superhero story. Thank you! That makes me laugh a lot. But you know, it's also powerful. I encountered Reiki when I was doing a year in service with AmeriCorps. It's like the Peace Corps but in my own community. At the time, I was going to school. I was young. I had been a single mom, I had met my sweet husband, we had another baby, and I was working. [It was] a full and crazy, crazy life. 

DIR: Indeed, I don't know how you even did that!
MK: Reiki practice, actually! I did it because I'm really strong, right? And so I just kept going. [Like] so many people. We all keep going. We burn out, and we keep going anyway. We try to sleep, and we can't get to sleep very well. We wake up the next day, and we're operating from that place of [running on empty.] You don't have anything left, but you keep going. And at some point, I was like, there has got to be another way. Luckily, I was working at a women's resource center. One of the women in that community was a Reiki practitioner [and] teacher, and she was so sweet. She was such a wonderful woman. There was something about her. It was probably her Reiki practice, right? She was so peaceful. She was so happy. [And] I had so much turmoil at an emotional level—baggage about my parents being divorced, being the seventh child, etc.

DIR: That's why you're so boisterous. You had to remind them you existed!  
MK: I was actually super, super shy and quiet. Through my Reiki practice, I've been able to kind of accept who I am more— [I became] much friendlier, much more fun. So, I had a lot of turmoil [at] all levels of my life. My friend recommended going to a Reiki treatment, and I was like, "I don't know what Reiki is, but I'm going to try it." It was the best thing I've ever done. I just felt more myself. And it was like, "How do you forget yourself?" I felt myself again, and I felt so happy, so in the flow. I felt at peace. I got home, and I just felt all this overwhelming sense of love for my family. Because I was present, really present, and I could love them the way that they needed to. There were my two boys, now in their twenties. I always wanted to be a good parent. I always wanted to be a good person. And I think Reiki really helped me to do that because I could be myself. I could let go of my worry. I could let go of my fear. I could just be, have more gratitude and more compassion.

Maria Kammerer, of Attune: the Art of Reiki.

DIR: I love the way you put it because a lot of us, we take a Reiki class, and we're like, "Oh, I didn't see the angels. I didn't see colors, but I feel very peaceful." We say it's less of an experience. Yet how many times are we feeling really peaceful in our lives? It's such a gift to be present and calm.
MK: Oh my gosh, so true. Because we can lose track of what's really important in life, you know, and a lot of times we want to be entertained, which is great. I love to have fun, no doubt. But actually, being peaceful means that I can really be resting in myself. And then I have the freedom to have fun, no matter what the conditions are, to get the most out of my life. Even accepting the anger or the angry parts of who we are. That's so healing. And that comes [when] you have peace in you—you're able to accept the sadness or the other parts of yourself that you've been trying to hold back or hold down.

DIR: When we're doing the pre-interview, you said a phrase that really struck me: you have to love yourself so much that you love even your anger, and that for you, Reiki practice allowed that. That is really such a beautiful statement. 
MK: As I mentioned earlier, I used to be really, really shy, and I used to be so stiff too. Like, "All right… I gotta be perfect." I just wanted to fit in. I never felt like I've really fit into anything, you know? And so I tried to blend in super hard, and that's so much effort. I mean, you should've seen me on the dance floor. [She dances like a robot.] I couldn't be free. 

DIR: I met you three, four years ago. And when you're describing yourself as shy and stiff, I can't believe it. You were always dancing, moving, and laughing. 
MK: Isn't that funny? I started to relax into my own body. I feel like I embody who I am now because my energy is in my own self. It's not out there trying to control the world or my own emotions. I'm not looking for happiness and peace outside of myself. I used to think, What do people mean by "love yourself"? What is peace? How to let go. Sometimes that can be a puzzle. But I think we have to start to trust ourselves a little more and just do the practice. Just sit, practice, and [let go] all that stuff that the mind puzzles through. How to love your anger? That's a huge thing. It comes with [practice]. You start to unfold and accept things: the angry parts of you and the loving parts even more. And the, and the bitchy parts—sorry for cussing!

I can allow myself [to be.] I can be funny. I never could do that before. Transformation, it's so good that we can progress. We can start to live more in the moment.

DIR: There is something essential in what you said: we alw­ays expect the attunement to do the work. However, the attunement is an initial taste of that peace of mind, acceptance, and feeling good. Daily practice is what allows us to shed all those layers of anger and fear. 
MK: I'm glad you said that because it's true. I love to learn things. I took all the Reiki classes I could. I was like, "I'm so hungry for this. I love it." I was learning modern teachings. But I think that to really progress in your own transformation, to continue to let go of layers, you need to have that dedication to yourself. What happened at the beginning is that I felt really good, and then I stopped practicing. 

DIR: Like most of us do!
MK: Because you feel good. So you're like, "Yeah, I feel good." And then you slowly start to feel worse and worse and worse. And then I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I have this Reiki practice!" Some lightbulbs would go on, I would practice, and then, oh my gosh, I would feel really good. Then at some point, I said to myself, "I've got to stop doing this to myself." I think I became so aware of my own state of being [I realized that] I have a choice. If I feel bad, you know what? I have a choice: I can dedicate myself to this wor­k of showing compassion, loving myself more by doing the work, and being diligent in my practice. And I think that's super important. And that way, I continue to feel good and then feel better and better and, and who freaking knows, right? It is such a joy. Every day is a new day. Every moment is a fresh moment. 

DIR: When we talked another time, you mentioned the precept "gyo-o hageme," which many people translate as "work hard," but it's really more about practicing diligently. When I went to a Zen monastery, it also means when you sit and new practice, you're already enlightened. So this precept is also a reminder that you already are enlightened. You just need to practice, right? Okay, I probably killed this a little bit. [Laugh.] I think it's one of the less talked about precepts, so it was very exciting when I heard it was your favorite precept! 
MK: I love "gyo-o hageme"! To me, [when we say] work or being diligent, we could squeeze the juice out of anything. We can make our meditation practice so dry and can punish ourselves with it. So I think actually practicing diligently, or diligence is actually to enjoy. To enjoy the meditations and to really enjoy that hands-on healing and feel that loving touch. We cannot really be as open if we work too hard at it. If we try to make something happen or want to create some effect, we have too much stuff in the way. So, you know what? Stop, enjoy this moment, enjoy your own breath, your own energy, body, mind—and that's when I think it just feels really good.

DIR: I know, it's about doing a chore. It's really, as you say, about self-love. This precept is self-love in action. It's one of my favorite precepts, although the one I need the most is "Just for today," which is not literally one, but... I was so excited when I discovered you were another "gyo-o hageme lover." I have a whole class on it: The underdog precept. 
MK: The "gyo-o hageme team!

DIR: When we talk about your origin story, you trained with several teachers, you hit a wall, and later you found a community that helped move forward. I wanted to talk about the importance of having a Reiki community, in your case in Cincinnati. 
MK: I think we're so lucky to have a beautiful Cincinnati Reiki community. It was founded by Sundar Kadayam and Zeynep Yilmaz. They are wonderful practitioners, really dedicated to their own practice.

I learned from lots of different teachers, all wonderful but more a Western-style Reiki, which is great, and I think it helped me actually so much in my life, as you can tell. But at one point in my practice, [I struggled.] I am such a hard worker, that's probably why I like gyo-o hageme. I'm just like, "I will do my homework. I will read the books." Do you know what I mean? I was doing that with the teachings I had, and it just didn't make sense to me. I didn't really understand how Reiki worked. I was teaching, but I didn't understand so many things. My progression definitely hit a wall. I felt like I was just spinning my wheels and not really going forward. 

So Zeynep, the coordinator for the Cincinnati Reiki, reached out to me, and she invited me to go to this group. I was like, "Oh my gosh, I don't know what's going to happen!" Like, "What are these people going to be like?" Because I'm pretty much alone. I can be a loner. I'm good by myself. So, I went and, oh my gosh, this group was so beautiful. They're so harmonious and welcoming. I really appreciated that. Because I was still a little shy, and I wasn't sure. I was a little suspicious of them. They will laugh to this day.

They started to share the chanting... The chanting [was] part of their tradition that they had learned from Frans Stiene and the International House of Reiki. And I got to chant with this beautiful group. It was probably like 25 or 30 Reiki practitioners. And I was blown away. I felt like, "Oh my gosh, Reiki is me. It's in me. And it's in my own Hara. It's in my own center." It made so much sense, and it felt so good. [Having that community] completely changed the way that I felt about Reiki and how I practiced.

Over the years, we've gotten together so many times. But we have two main events, twice a year, that we all gather together. And it's from people from all different lineages, not just the International House of Reiki. Everyone's invited. We practice, we learn. Having the support of people that understand your language around energy or have similar experiences to you [was amazing.] They became for me like a bigger family of people to love you and support you in your life. And that's what it's really become—this ever-widening circle of Reiki family. And I feel like I meet more Reiki family all over the world like you, and people from Australia, Germany, and California. It's just so great. Having that group showed me so much, like Reiki's many faces and everybody's different transformation and development. It's so many lessons, right. As I said, I come from a big family already, so to me, that felt really natural. 

I would try to talk to other people about Reiki, especially at first. I was like, "Come here, come here and try this Reiki stuff. It's amazing." They were like, "Crazy lady!"

DIR: Crazy lady is the favorite one! A lot of people want to create Reiki circles and Reiki communities. Can you give a few tips? What is critical for someone who wants to create a community that is both relevant and sustainable?
MK: Now I'm hosting the Cincinnati Reiki events. I feel like the more we practice, the more we include more people automatically. When you practice, you're practicing not just for yourself but for your family and your loved ones. Then that wider circle starts to happen. I think your personal practice is really important. Then if you feel you want to start a group for yourself—and I encourage you to do that, it's always more fun with friends— having the dedication to continuing to show up. 

If you have even just one person in mind who would practice with you, that's great. Don't wait for the perfect circumstances to begin. Invite that one person. Set the date and time. Once you put it on your calendar, it's going to happen. You have that one person that you're accountable to; it's got to happen.

DIR: I love how simple you made it. Right. We think it's all about creating a Facebook page with a following and creating logos and names. It actually starts with one person and a calendar invite.
MK: We have to keep it simple. It's just that you want to gather together. You want to practice together. You know, it can be very simple like that. And just remain open to you know who you want to invite… If you have a few people that maybe you took classes with, or maybe [who love] Reiki treatments, or just a little bit of interest, right? It's just like a little seed that you water, and it starts to grow. And the only thing that it needs is your time, a bit of attention, compassion, and it will grow.

DIR: I love that. Just start with one, and little by little, it will grow. And don't get frustrated if there are few people for the first two or three circles because it takes time to build a community. 
MK: Absolutely. But if you just keep holding that space open, if you just keep going and then, of course, it will start to develop,

DIR: You've been practicing for over 20 years. Is there one tip you will give someone to deepen their practice? Is there a straightforward piece of advice for people to deepen their practice or fall back in love with their practice again if they feel stuck or disenchanted?
MK: I love this question! I think, "Don't strive for perfection." That's not what life is. You know, perfection, when I think about that, it's so not alive. It's so plastic and not alive, don't strive for that. Strive to just be here now. All you have to do is this one step: fully do that one thing, that one breath, that meditation, or that one practice. Forget everything else. Really commit yourself to that five minutes of breathing in the Hara, and not worrying about that you've got to be one with the universe, or you have to feel the light or see the light or any of that. Just get to enjoy what is here. That's so unusual because we often go so quick, so fast in our life, we're going for the next practice going for the next goal, or going for the next thing. But, if we just rest in that one thing that we're doing, it doesn't matter what it is. It could be driving. You are Reiki already. Your spiritual journey is already happening. Remember to include yourself in everything that you do. 

DIR: You made it so simple. We're not fixing, we're not, self-improvement, we're just being. We all struggle with similar issues, but we don't talk a lot about that side of our practice. Perfectionism is a hard one, especially for women and especially here in the US. There is pressure for us to be strong yet soft, to be witty, feminine, everything. The list keeps growing.
MK: It's so true. That's too much. We put ourselves under so much pressure, and we just had to let off the pressure and just be ourselves because we got to start to trust who we are. Because there's nobody like you out there, and you've got to trust that. One of our teachers, Frans Stiene, used to say, "You got to love yourself 200%." I was like, "I understand what you're saying in my mind, but the rest of me doesn't get that." I think I understand that more these days, and I am super grateful for that. I feel like it's this caring: I know the state of my own being now; I'm a little more aware of how I'm feeling. I'm just tending to that a little more. Each day I'm not striving to be perfect or like anyone else, at least for now.

DIR: You are a wonderful being,
MK: I kind of want to be Michelle Obama, but you know…

DIR: Well, now that you say, Michelle Obama, yeah! Like that. Beyond any political belief, a woman who keeps going to Target and is grounded after going to the White House—that's my kind of woman. 
MK: She is amazing; she's herself!

DIR: I always saw Reiki as a practice of acceptance of the self, but the way you put it into words—this coming into your being with authenticity—feels more joyful. Be fully who you are, show your colors. 
MK: Why not? One of the problems is that we think we have so much time. Actually, we're all going to die someday, so we might as well make the most of it. 

The more true you are to your way in your being—one of the Reiki precepts—the easier it is to allow others to be free, to be true to themselves. And I love that because it's so much more flexible, so much more open. I can be who I am right now, and it may be different tomorrow. Who knows? My husband thinks that's funny. He's like, "You're still the same as you were yesterday." I'm like, No, I'm not!"

DIR: You actually make a living off Reiki practice, a challenge many practitioners struggle with. How do you balance the money side with the spiritual side?  
MK: Hmm. That's a great question. Having a Reiki business is different than other businesses. It cannot be the way that we work at everything else. It's a spiritual journey, and Reiki is a spiritual practice, right? So you can't have the business the same way. I see my business as more holistic: all parts of my business have to be about healing. And most of that healing is my healing. Some people would say, "Well, that's kind of a selfish thing to say." But we have to stop thinking about that: it's not selfish to care for yourself and take care of yourself. In fact, it's the best thing that we can do for our loved ones and the world. Because that's a little less anger out there.

DIR: We have to see self-care as everybody care. Because if you're centered, you're not going to be driving the other people mad.
MK: Yeah. So, you know, the money aspect of my business… I have to work on my own piece about that and work on my money issues. When things come up, when [you are] feeling fear, you need to take good care of yourself. During our spiritual journey, you uncover these uncomfortable truths… about yourself, sometimes about others, but it's okay to face them. With a [solid] practice, we have the energy, we have the mental space in our minds, hearts, bodies, whatever, to see those things and take good care of them. Because then we can let them start to open up however they need to [in] a way we digest these lessons like food. We take our experiences in, and we take the wisdom from these experiences. We digest them, and we can let go of everything else. 

So I learned a lot about my fears regarding money and being paid to serve others. And also, people would bring me things like, "You're making money off of people, and that should be free." And I was like, "Well, actually, I have to take care of my children and my family too. And I need to pay for groceries." My life is not the same as everybody else's, but you have to have harmony in your life. Harmony is a thing that's always kind of changing. As you grow, that harmony between money, your work, and your time at home changes. Whatever the situation is, [challenges keep] coming back again and again and again. You grow, and then there is harmony again. So yeah, I see it as an opportunity. 

I don't think you go into a Reiki business trying to make a bunch of money, right? Because that's not the purpose of that. I think you have to have a really good intention for yourself and what you're offering to the world, which is the system of Reiki. We have to be really clear about that. My intention for my work is to be true to the nature of who we are. I want to rest in that peace more and more of who I really am. And I offer that to anybody who wants to receive that. I want to re rest of my own Reiki energy. And I support people in their own remembering of what that is. Their own peace, their own happiness. 

I try to stay really clear about that, and that helps me as I develop my business. As I start putting pieces together [I ask myself], is this living the precepts? Because it can be very difficult. It's challenging. But I did start on just like anything else: I tried to keep it very simple. I started offering treatments while working full-time as one of the administrators at a school. That felt really good. I got a lot of joy out of sharing Reiki with other people. And then I started to teach a little bit and, oh my gosh, that's so much fun. Of course, my own practice changed, and so the way that I offer changes. I feel like Reiki is who I am and, and who I am is always flowing. We have to stay alive in our practice and in ourselves because things change all the time. I mean, think about COVID and all of that stuff. I had to shut my business down, and I was on the couch crying. I was heartbroken. I felt like my mission in life was canceled. 

DIR: It's such a different space you are working from. Instead of worrying about money first, it's the fact that your purpose in life has been canceled that affected you when it came to shutting down. 
MK: I've always been in this place of wanting to serve others. With Reiki, I found I could help myself and also serve others, which was awesome. I love the multitask! in a way, I want to receive what I want to share. I want to share from that place of feeling good and overflowing—that totally makes sense to me. By starting part-time, I wasn't worried about the bills so much. I could still pay my bills so I could manage my fear.

DIR: Starting to charge for sessions is one of the hardest parts!
MK: I had to work out [how to charge and all] these things. I gave myself the space and the time to develop as I needed to. And, you know, my teaching has changed how my Reiki treatments have changed from the beginning to now. I think it's just changed because I feel more peaceful. I think it's so simple; it's so practical. We got to take care of our hopes and fears in a Reiki business, so we don't get carried away. And really remain in that [space of] for this moment only so that you can be just receiving and healing yourself throughout the process.

So, when my mission got canceled, I had to cry. I had to take care of myself. And I realized, wait, I'm still here. It's not the end of my life. I can still offer what I can, and I'm going to do it. And so I did. If I had one Reiki session online, I was just really grateful for that. I just took good care of myself and my family. I ended up taking care of my neighborhood because I would just be walking all the time, and I'd noticed my neighbors were super isolated.

This is just life, right? The caring for my neighbors and my family in a new way. And we became closer. Normally we don't have that opportunity to chat with each other. Now I have a sweet little community. I'm so excited about that.

We have to keep growing and our business changes. The needs for your business change just as you do. So, stay open to that. Don't hold on to the way your business operates so much because it can change. What's precious and sacred is you and the people that you get to meet. Just remember that. Keep going, Don't give up.

And then the other thing is that anytime you want to try something new or bring something out into the world, start talking about it. I start telling people, "Hey, guess what I'm thinking about doing that." You get people to be on your side and support you through that process. Because if you're excited about something, your loved ones are excited about it too. And they will ask you about it next week: "Hey, how's that going?" That actually keeps you accountable. "Oh, yeah. I did nothing on it!"

DIR: Which happens often!
I did that before I started the podcast, and it's what forced me to go ahead and set up that first interview. It works? I love offering sessions, but I sometimes find it challenging to deal with some clients, especially in New York City. You mentioned the other time we talked an excellent piece of advice to deal with Reiki clients: the most compassionate way I can handle this situation. Can you elaborate a little on this?
MK: Sometimes, that precept can be hard: to be compassionate to yourself and others. But it made me realize that compassion is not about being nice. I grew up to be nice and a good person, and I wasn't being very compassionate to myself. I'm a giver. I took care of everybody else, and I always left myself out. So being compassionate is actually [asking yourself] what is the most loving action you can do for yourself and others. The more we start to work with that precept, the easier [it is] when difficulties happen, or difficult people are in our lives. I think it's to not hide from that, to not be afraid. We have the strength; we have the compassion to accept them for who they are. And also to be strong. Compassion can be very strong, can be very fiery. The most loving action can sometimes be a really sharp kick in the butt. Do you know what I mean? I have two boys. They really helped me with that!

One of my friends who I really, really loved once gave me some of the best advice. She said, "You're too nice. Your children, your husband, they're running all over you. You're being a doormat." But I think we can do this in our business too, that we just offer an offer, and it's not the right [approach.] It's okay to say no to your clients and to your students. And to not accept people as a client or a student. In fact, that may be the most loving action. [My friend] said, "Sometimes you just gotta go ape shit crazy on people, on your family, and let them know that it's not okay." I just thought that was hysterical. I got a good laugh out of that but, but she's right. Because by being too nice, we're not taking responsibility for what is happening in our lives. Also, we disempower people by not allowing them to hear the truth of the situation and take responsibility for their part of whatever that is. 

I'm just trying to think of a specific example. I have had a student who ran into a friend of mine who's an incredible Reiki teacher. He lives in a different state, so he sent him to me to be my student. And I was like, "Yeah, for my friend, of course, you're welcome to take my class. Oh, you want to take it for free? Yeah, of course, you can take my class for free. Oh, you're going to be a really tough person to deal with all the time. I can handle that." I cared for this person. I cared for our relationship for as long as we could, and I cared for myself, but I realized I don't need to put myself in those situations. Some students are not the right students for me.

DIR: I like to chat with the people who want to study with me to check if we both feel like we are a match. Especially when it comes to Reiki 3, as it implies a significant investment. 
MK: I think the more centered and grounded you are, the more you have clarity in your life, and how you're communicating Reiki is clearer. Then the people who come to see you are the people that need to be there. All my clients are so lovely, and my students are so lovely, and I really enjoy them. I have taken care of my stuff too. So I have a little less in me, which is also helpful, fewer buttons to push you a little more gratitude, and a little more compassion in me, which is great. Boundaries are a good thing, and being able to be strong and say no. Or say, "You know what? You [need] to practice." I'm going to tell the truth. Whether people receive that or not is up to them, that's their responsibility. And I am not worried about it. I'm less worried about it than ever.

DIR: I know. It's, I love that. Boundaries and truthfulness. I have some students that have the same question class after class. I know that if they sat and did their practice, they will not have that question. So my answer is, "Sit on your bottom and tell me next week." Sometimes the most compassionate action is making sure people practice versus "solving" challenges for them. To hold the space for self-exploration. And I love the way you put it, "Hey, it's on you."
MK: Yeah. It's so much more empowering when you support someone in their own healing. We know that's what's happening: people are healing themselves. We want people to be empowered and to have their own Reiki energy. To really embody that. It's such a gift. It just keeps giving to their families, to their world, to what's happening in their life. I really appreciate each person's sacredness in that space and that it's not me who's doing the healing. I'm there holding that space for each person, whatever's going on. Not examining too much in my mind. When people have questions or things, I just try to communicate from that place of compassion as best as I can. I also tell them, "If it doesn't resonate with you, just throw it out, forget it, take what you need from the situations, and just enjoy."

DIR: Changing course a little bit, you went to Japan for further training and recently completed a mountain monk training. Can you chat a bit about that?
MK: I was lucky enough to go to Japan with Oliver Drewes, Frans Stiene, and a really incredible group of Reiki practitioners from all over the world. That was called Walking in the footsteps of a Mikao Usui. I think getting to feel the land, culture, people, traditions, and walk on the mountains—I feel like those roots [are now] a part of me somehow. When we eat the food of a place and enjoy the culture, we learn so much from those experiences, of being immersed in practice. 

I continued researching on my own about Mikao Usui, the founder of Reiki, and his practices. I'm such a nerd in so many ways. I found a Shugendo mountain training that was happening in the United States. That's a very rare circumstance, as far as I can tell. So I was really excited to go because Mikao Usui practiced Shugendo. And Shugendo, it's about becoming one with Kami—or the divine nature of who you are—through accepting that Kami in nature, in yourself, the elements, and all of those things. It's a very aesthetic practice, so really difficult. One of my students called it Zen CrossFit! There's a lot of endurance practices that you go through. The point is not that you do the endurance, that you're super strong and can run, chant for 15 hours, and hike up the mountains with no food, not that much water. The important thing is that you are dedicated to that practice, that you really rest in who you are and trust your practice. You have that opportunity to see and confront your fears and the fact that you may die. It's pretty intense. You have compassion for yourself and can say, "That's good. I think I'll take a break." Because it's not about our ego—it's about really exposing our true nature a little more. 

It really helped me see a different aspect of Mikao Usui's practice and experience it for myself. I think that adds a different richness, a different perspective. I love exploring and keeping my practice really alive. And this was one way. I was so grateful to get out of my house [laughs] to embrace chanting the heart Sutra for hours and the Fudo mantra and being able to embody that mind like a mountain [quality.] rooted in peace, able to stand in any kind of weather.

DIR: For those not familiar with these practices and chants, you can find more about Shugendo here; listen to the Fudo Mantra chant here and here for the Heart Sutra.  My last question is another one I ask every practitioner. What is your biggest Reiki oops? What is the "mistake" that you made that made you go like, wow, this is a big lesson?
MK: Gosh, I mean, I mess up all the time! I actually think it is good to share mistakes. I think embracing our mistakes and our mess-ups is wonderful. It's just that gentling of that feeling that we have to be perfect. We don't. I learned so much from my mistakes; although I love to learn through happiness and joy, I think that's really important. We don't always have to learn through suffering and mistakes, you know? Happiness and joy are just as great. 

But when I first started practicing Reiki, I was super excited, and I was really forceful about it. I was like, "No, really sit down, sit, no sit. And I'm going to give you Reiki." So I've done all those things. So I can really understand people putting all the power of the universe on someone's knee and trying really hard. I really laugh about that now. At one point, I just was like, I'm so sorry to all my students! It's not that I messed up, but I kept changing and growing. My wisdom and my understanding of Reiki grew. I actually reached out to my beginning students like, "Hey, you guys, I'm practicing Reiki in a whole different way. I'm not putting all the power of the universe on our knees. I'm feeling my own relationship with the universe more and more, and I want to share that with you. It's so important to remember who you are that you are sacred; you are Reiki. Guess what? It's in you." 

DIR: [Laughs] I think, unless you've gone through all this process of trying too hard, trying to fix—you cannot be a compassionate teacher. And I also don't really know if it's a mistake or just a stage of learning we all go through. And as teachers or job is to hold a space where our students can be human and have an embodied practice.

Maria, I want to thank you so much for your time and the chance to know you better. Sometimes when we see people so happy, we enjoy the happiness. We don't get the depth of practice being that joy behind it. I really appreciate you sharing your journey with us! 
MK: Thank you so much! Take care. 

Reiki drawing inspired by Maria Kammerer’s journey.

Ifetayo White is a Reiki Master Teacher who is the founder and director of The Lowcountry School of Reiki on St. Helena Island, SC.  Having practiced and taught Reiki for more than 25 years, Ifetayo was attuned in 2020 as a Usui Shinpiden Reiki Master by Frans Stiene of the International House of Reiki. Her training as a doula, a massage therapist, and Jin Shin Do acupressure practitioner, and 10 years of experience working in mental health have created the container for her practice in somatic healing of traumatic memory stored in the body. For Ifetayo, Reiki is the foundation of everything she does in her life and is devoted to the daily practices of living Reiki.

DIVE INTO REIKI: Ifetayo, thank you so much for joining me. I see you, and I just smile!
IFETAYO WHITE: It's a pleasure to be here. Every time we come together, I have chills and tangles and excitement. Thank you so much for inviting me.

DIR: It's going to be a lovefest. Sorry. I like to start every interview with the same question: how did you come in contact with Reiki, and how did your journey begin?
IF: It's an interesting journey. My first experience with Reiki was in the 80s. I would think around 1984. I'm from Washington DC, and around that time, I was meeting the first Reiki practitioners… Eventually, one of my best friends became Reiki 1 first. She eventually became a Reiki master and became my Reiki teacher. At that time, I don't think anyone was charging for Reiki. At least my friends weren't. And so, we were all lined up all the time waiting to receive. And fortunately, Nathalie, my friend I owned a duplex house. She rented the first floor. So, it was always like nonstop Reiki. They had a lot of Reiki shares. So yeah, it became a go-to for me for any discomfort. Even when practitioners wanted to practice, I was always with my hand up. I try to remember what it was, what was I feeling, I'd know that I felt better. That's all I can think now because it was quite a while ago. I personally was not at all thinking about becoming a practitioner or a teacher. I was just really interested in receiving.

 DIR: That's beautiful. Most of us Reiki practitioners have a difficult time receiving.
IF: Yeah. And it took many years before me of receiving before I became attuned. I became attuned to Reiki one and Reiki 2 in 1995 for my 50th birthday. The same friend who had become a Reiki master asked if she could give me Reiki 1 and 2. And at that time, I was a massage therapist and reflexologist. I was devoted to those practices, and I really did not feel a calling to Reiki. I loved the practice, but I felt as though I had good energy in my hands; everyone said you have good energy.

My friend assured me that if I had an attunement, there was some more for me to know and experience. I didn't initially say yes to her offer. I said, "Let me meditate on it." I was a big meditator. In my meditation, what I felt and received guidance was, "Receive the gift." That's all I heard. And that was that's profound. The gift has been the gift that has continued to give. Always.

So, on my 50th birthday [I became Reiki 1], and two months later, I became Reiki 2. In 1999, four years later, a student of my Reiki master who had become a Reiki master needed someone to practice with. She said, "Can I attune you as a Reiki master teacher?" And I was like, "Sure." I hadn't planned to teach. I'm really, that was not my plan. So, I tell so many of my students, "Reiki has its way with you." Reiki called me more than I called it to me. It was divine. Reiki is my life now.

DIR: A couple of things I would like to highlight from what you said: that you were able to receive first. Often as practitioners, we want to give sessions, and we hardly receive any. And then you took the time to connect with your inner self to check if you really wanted to move forward into Reiki training.
IF: I don't know how to explain it, except that's how it was. My journey was that way. And my friend, who was my first Reiki master, no longer practices… I was the first Reiki master in Beaufort, South Carolina when I moved [here] in 2000. And that was interesting. I live on St. Helena Island, but it's part of Beaufort County... It's more rural where I live. But as I said, Reiki has its way with us. It's divine. We can't control it, as you know from practicing. Our lives are influenced nonstop by Reiki. My life is informed by Reiki.

DIR: Yeah. And that's an amazing thing, right? It happens to us that we learn Reiki because the practice calls us. But often, it isn't until we find a special teacher or book that we really grow into it.
IF: Yes. I had been teaching for 20 years before I met Frans [Stiene]. Prior to that, around a year before I met him, one of my [Reiki] master's students had seen his book somewhere, The Inner Heart of Reiki. And she said, "Oh Ifetayo, you have to have this book," and she bought it for me. I couldn't put it down. I've read it over and over. I wish I could show you my copy right now. It's so dogeared. I buy new copies and give them away, Nathalie. And I just keep my copy. But that [book] became my Bible in so many ways. I learned so much, I could feel something transforming in myself.

Then I saw an announcement from the Omega Institute that Frans would be in New York in May 2019. So, I went there, and I met him. We were chanting the precepts in Japanese… Since that time, he came to my home in St. Helena in February of 2020. He came and taught Reiki 3 - Shinpiden level at my home to 12 women. In rural South Carolina! I couldn't believe he would come. We had a wonderful time, and I have not been the same since then.

My whole practice has transformed. I teach more Reiki masters now than ever. [My daily Reiki practice has changed. Before] I gave myself Reiki every day. I said my precepts every day. Now there's a whole lot more than I do every day. I'm so grateful for him and the expansion of my life and my practice. For the capacity to reach so many more beautiful beings and share Reiki with them as I intend. My practice has the intention of bringing and supporting beautiful beings back to their true selves. [Supporting] the knowing and living from that place of light within. And that's why I teach really—and everything else is gravy.

DIR: What you describe is going from an energy modality focused on well-being and physical improvement to a spiritual practice to reconnect with our true essence with an energetic component.
IF: Absolutely. I've always been a very spiritual person. I'm a deep seeker. When Frans came, it was like that connection just filled up everything that my heart had been asking for. And so, yes, Reiki is my spiritual practice, and it is my healing practice. And it is my love practice and everything practice.

 DIR: Your name has a beautiful translation. And for me your name, it's almost like the definition of Reiki. So, I would love for you to share that translation?
IF: My name is a spiritually-given name from the Yoruba African tradition. And it is now my legal name. I changed my name legally to Ifetayo Jacqueline White. Jacqueline was my birth name, which is equally beautiful. But Ifetayo was given to me by a priest who saw me and said, "You are Ifetayo." I didn't choose the name. And the name means "love that brings joy." And of course, like with any name, the request is to grow into that energy. So, since I was 49—I think that's when Ifetayo became my name—there have been many years of growing into it. Reiki has been a big part of that for me: growing into the light that I am. Living and expressing that light, that love, that joy. That's who I am. And I'm so grateful.

I love that you have that you brought [Reiki and my name] together. [In a way] in my 49th year, the year before I became Reiki, the name was calling Reiki to bring all of the support I needed to live out this name destiny.

DIR: It's almost like pointing towards how our practice should be. I know we're obsessed with shadow work lately, but sometimes we need to let go of shadows and sit in our light.
You're bringing Reiki to rural communities, to people who didn't have access to it. Often, it seems that Reiki is a practice mostly for hipsters or people who are into the new age movements in cities versus other communities that tend to be more diverse.  When we talked previously, you mentioned something that stuck in my mind: that there is no race or color in oneness, but we incarnate the person we are to bring access to the practice to specific groups of people. Can you elaborate a bit on that?
IF: Absolutely. As I shared earlier, I am from Washington DC, and I learned about Reiki in Washington DC—a city, an urban area. I attended the unity metaphysical Christian Church at that time for 10 years. And that's where all these Reiki people were. I was also a transcendental meditator. All of this was sort of mixing up together. My church was multi-racial, but our minister was African American. And so, there were just a lot of African-American people in that congregation who were very interested in new-age at that time.

That's where I was nurtured. My first Reiki master was an African American woman. The first African American woman Reiki master in DC is a friend of mine, Gwen Mitchell, who's now in California. So, for me, [I felt there] was always many people of color practicing Reiki. I never thought so much about it. We had our own community of healers and spiritual people in DC who were African American because we were just relating to one another. But as I moved forward and I began teaching in Beaufort, South Caroline, [this changed.] South Carolina is actually a part of the Bible belt of the south. It was very interesting. Then, in 2000, I was very low-key about Reiki. There had been a lot of [bad] press around that time from the Southern Baptist and from the Catholic church about Reiki and it not being as sanctified as we know it to be. So, I didn't really speak much about being a Reiki teacher at that time, except I [when] was practicing massage. Some of the massage therapists in town knew. And my first student there in Beaufort, South Carolina, was a massage therapist from a family that has the biggest tomato business in our county. They still do. They just send out a lot of tomatoes everywhere.

I've been blessed because of how I look, Nathalie. I am not attached to any of it. This is just the divine plan that was created before I got here. For me to serve in the way that is the easiest path.  Probably, therefore, I will attract to myself many people of color who are African American, but not only them. I've taught so many people! I can't even tell you! And of all races! But in rural South Carolina, and people now are traveling to stay with me to learn. I have an Airbnb, so I have room for people. I've taught Reiki for cakes, for vegetables as an exchange. When there is an openness from anyone in my community, I want to say yes, you can be Reiki in whatever way we can make that happen.

I worked in mental health with youth for 10 years. There were teenagers that I worked with whom I attuned. Particularly a couple of young women who were pregnant and who were going to have babies. I was sharing Reiki with them, and it just made sense that they would become Reiki for their babies, for themselves, for their mental health, for their birthing experience. Oneness is so dear [to me]. It's one of my highest vibrations of me. I'm grateful that I live and that from that place of love and non-duality, and no separation to be able to serve those folks who look like me. Who feel comfortable [with me.] Because, as we know, at our level of evolution and growth, we will turn to go to people who we feel comfortable with and who we feel simpatico with. So, it's been a blessing for me.

As I shared earlier, my intention for teaching Reiki is to reawaken the truth of who we are inside of ourselves. For me, trauma healing begins inside. If we are attuned to Reiki and are carrying that Reiki energy in us, then the work has begun in healing, whatever traumas we are aware of.

DIR: This is so great because often, the communities who could benefit more from Reiki in a country where healthcare is so expensive are the ones who are less exposed to it. I believe you were requesting some grants to spread that work.

IF: Yes. I've been researching and having other research for me. I am particularly interested in grants that will support myself and other Reiki masters in attuning women of color, particularly young women. Now there are a lot more grants out to address particular challenges in the black community. And because I [am] a doula… I support a lot of women in my community who are doulas and midwives. We're all very familiar with the challenges of death rates of women of color [in childbirth] in our country, particularly in our state. We're one of the highest. So [I'm looking for] grants to work either from the doula side, or just for attuning women to become Reiki practitioners so that they can [share with] themselves, first, and then their families and their community. That's the reason why I'm actively engaged in researching funding.

DIR: Reiki can be translated as ancestral energy, and you perform a beautiful ritual with the Atlantic Ocean that has to do with that concept. Could you please share it with our listeners?
IF: I daily go to the beach, which is seven miles from my house. One day, soon after I moved to Beaufort when I was in meditation, it came to me that one of my purposes for being here is to go to the ocean and to send Reiki to the Atlantic Ocean. To the path of the slave trade from Western Africa and other parts of Africa to particularly South Carolina, which was the hub of the slave trade in America. So, every day as that is my practice. I send Reiki to that passage and to all the souls, including those folks who owned the boats and everybody involved. I send my love, my healing energy, my Reiki energy. And that's my contribution, you know? It's a calling. I don't have any other words to say it.

DIR: It's beautiful. When I was in Japan, the priest always told me, you don't sit just by yourself. You sit with all your ancestors. We are born into our personas for a reason. In my case, there is probably a lot of WWII trauma. I find it very beautiful that we can clear that energy that we carry from hundreds of years.
IF: To me, Nathalie, it's not hard, it's not that difficult, particularly if you carry Reiki. It's just another way of extending love—love is healing—and connect with our hearts. To connect to another energy, which is what trauma is. It's all energy. So we simply extend and expand the love and the Reiki from ourselves to bless whatever situations need to be blessed. So I'm grateful.

I want to go back a little bit to when you were talking about activism. Frans, to me, is a major activist in his way. He's so the inspiration. You are also in your way. Those of us who are out there, in whatever way, sharing this practice. Sharing Reiki is activism to me. I'm a child of the sixties and seventies. I was an activist and civil rights fighter. I was marching. I had a big Afro. That's my core—a big part of my spirit. This is a gift: to be able to be Reiki and to be an activist for love and oneness in the world.

 DIR: In a world where most Reiki practitioners are trained in 8-hour classes, what do you think about holding the space to healing trauma without any further training in this area? What advice would you give new Reiki practitioners interested in this area?
IF: You know, I'm a "simplist." I don't know if that's a word; I just made it up. I'm all about simplicity. About what is simple. And to me, energy is simple. Energy is basic. As I speak with my students or clients, I always bring it back to the basics—we're working with energy. And in this case, we're working with energy that has become frozen or stuck because of whatever the situation is at that time. There was fear that happened could not be metabolized, so could not be released. We don't have to program [Reiki] to address this or does that. I might speak out in public about addressing trauma, but I will work the same way with someone who comes, whatever they present. I will speak to them and give back to them the same words they gave me so that we will be in oneness and communication, but my practice is going to be the same.

I've had mental health background work and worked with women's health. As a massage therapist, there are some layers of knowledge I have about the body, about emotions, and about energy and how it shows up in us. But if you are a beginner, you don't need to have that. You want to just be in yourself and be present with whom you are with. Be in compassion with what they bring you and share Reiki. We can feel it when there is a softening. We can feel when there's not a softening. We can feel when energy has begun to move. We can be aware of the energy that's not moving. We can comfortably stay in that place and know that we are addressing whatever is being asked to be addressed without worry. And if we're interested in trauma, then there are books that we can read. There are beautiful works out there now that talk about trauma in ways that anyone can understand. We can inform ourselves that way, but it's not necessary. My belief is that we're Reiki, and we show up with Reiki. Reiki has its own intelligence, and it will do what it is here to do.

DIR: I love that: just place your hands. It's that simple. No need to analyze which chakra is off balance or to release specific trauma.  I feel we make it more complicated because we're afraid that just simple protocols are never enough.
IF: That has been a beautiful challenge, I believe, for Reiki practitioners and teachers throughout my experience with Reiki. Because of the simplicity and because we don't have to know a lot, we often feel that we are not doing enough, we're not giving enough, and we are not contributing enough. And nothing could be farther from the truth. Reiki is so profound and strong and powerful. We are contributing, and we don't have to know what has happened. We know we are one with our true selves as we sit with a person and surrender all that we are into the present moment in time. And share from our hearts and our hands. And know that as we continue and grow to own personal practices, Nathalie, we will know without a doubt, without having to have feedback, we will know that we're enough. We have given enough. And it's all good.

DIR: I always tell my students, "Keep practicing, because one day it switches, and you know it's enough." It doesn't take two weeks. For some people, it comes very fast; for others, like me, it may take years. Now I'm going to ask you another question that I ask everybody: what your biggest Reiki oops was, something that could be labeled as a "mistake" but gave you significant learning or insight into your practice. 
IF: That's a great question. For real, there are no mistakes, [But before] I was of the consciousness early on in my practice of "not enough." As massage therapists… we are moving, touching, and shaking, and whatever. And then you come to share Reiki. In the beginning, it's like, "Okay, how am I going to make sure this person feels that they have received?" I wanted to make sure they felt that they received something from me just as they felt when I gave them a massage.

It took quite a while for me to get out of my head and accept that I am one with Reiki. I am sharing Reiki, and I don't have to do Reiki. I don't have to force Reiki. I don't have to expect a certain outcome of experience from the person I shared it with. So yeah, that took a while. And I can't say to you when it shifted. I'm feeling that for that particular challenge, my practice was to continue to come in, continue to be present, and to sit as opposed to giving and doing.

I'm a big giver. That's another part of my learning: [to stop] the overboard of giving. In a lot of ways in my Reiki practice, even giving more time than was necessary. Giving more just because I wanted those people to have a certain experience.

Since meeting Frans and since really growing in my own daily practices of sitting and being present, being still, of the breathwork—all of that has shifted things enormously in the last two years. So, [I focus] my personal practice of being Reiki, being Reiki, being Reiki—and all these other pieces [or need to give more] will not be necessary. They will not even be a part of our consciousness of thoughts.

DIR: I think, honestly, this is the best advice because probably 99% of practitioners struggle exactly with that, especially when they start charging. The way I dealt with it was to do my homework every day, and I go to the session having done so, then it made it easier to let go of worry during the session. It was like, "Okay, I can only control what I can control, which is my self-practice. And if I do my self-practice and I go from a state of mind of love and compassion, all will be fine."
IF: Exactly. And those of us who practice, we get exactly what you're saying. One of the things that also shifted with me since studying and meditating with Frans and all my reading [was that he pointed to] the practice of oneness, of no separation.

Before I knew that, I got that. But in the last two years and being with COVID for a whole year really shifted [the practice for me.] The practice of there is only one of us here. There is no separation. There is no distance. There is no time. And so, this has informed my practice with people, particularly distance healing, which I never did much of before, because there were so many people in my world that I shared Reiki in person. But because of the pandemic, the distance healing requests grew.

My love of distance healing now has just expanded. The capacity to practice "no distance, no separation, no time" has given me so much joy. And [although I didn't need the feedback] everyone has shared with me that the experience of the receiver has been profound coming from that place of me sitting in that place of no distance, no separation, no time. And in my own daily practice, strengthening and supporting that. I'm in love with that. I'm in love with oneness.

DIR: I love how you still have so much joy in your practice after so many years!
IF: As I'm sitting in this space with you, I'm just realizing that [before] I was a doula, a massage therapist, a Reiki master teacher practitioner… I was doing all of that at one time. Depending on how many births I had a month, it determined how many clients I could take for Reiki. Now it's all Reiki. I do nothing else, except when folks invite me to present on some larger platforms, but [even then] Reiki is underneath it all. I might be talking about healing or birthing, but for me, Reiki is under all of it. I love this shift now. It's nothing but Reiki for me now.

I only am teaching all the time, and I share Reiki, not as much but somewhat, with folks in person and a lot at distance sessions. I mentor people who call and want to talk [about] their growth and transformation. I usually combine the hour with some distance healing Reiki too. As you spoke, Nathalie, that just dawned on me that this is all I'm doing right now. My whole life has shifted. And I am writing a book on Reiki, and one day that will complete my personal offering to the world.

DIR: I'm the first person to buy that book! Since you and Frans love each other so much, he has kindly agreed to join the conversation.
FRANS STIENE: For me, [Ifetayo], you really are my role model. I will be 55 this year, and I think, "Wow, at your age, you're still teaching, you're still are…in the zest of life, you still enjoy life so much… the beauty of life, the playfulness and laughter of life. You still have so much passion… not just for the system of Reiki, but for life itself.

That, for me, is what the system of Reiki is really. As you were discussing, we don't need to add anything to it. We don't need to invent a new system. We need to actually realize that simplicity [is powerful] and owning that simplicity. That the beauty of life can really be tasted and felt.

 IF: Absolutely, totally. I love it. And I agree so much with you. And that's what love [being] friends. We just laugh all the time. We [are] playful, and that's for me is life. And that is Reiki. That is the energy of healing, love, and joy.

DIR: Now I have a new goal. I want to like to practice with both of you together in the city! Ifetayo, before we end this interview, I want to ask if there is anything that I missed that you want to add?
IF:  I must just share that for Reiki practitioners to find a meditation practice [is] crucial—it is so necessary for our support to support ourselves and our own health as we practice and teach. Meditate, breathe, meditate. Those are the magic words.

Dive Into Reiki: Kathleen Prasad is the founder of Animal Reiki Source and president of the Shelter Animal Reiki Association (SARA). A Reiki practitioner for over 22 years, Kathleen Prasad teaches and shares the healing benefits of Reiki meditation for animals and their caregivers. Kathleen has created the Let Animals Lead® method of Animal Reiki. This method represents the world's first specialized, extensive, and professional curriculum in Animal Reiki and meditating with animals for healing. Kathleen's non-profit, SARA, shares and teaches Animal Reiki for rescued animals and their caregivers in shelters and sanctuaries worldwide. 
I have to say that basically, Kathleen, you created the modality of Animal Reiki. I wasn't a thing before you came up with it. So, I'm really grateful you said yes to this interview. I want to start as I do with everyone, with a little bit of your origin story: tell us about the first time you came in contact with Reiki?
Kathleen Prasad: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me, Nathalie. I'm really happy to be here. My Reiki story is, I guess, similar to a lot of people that I've heard where it's unexpected, and it sort of takes over when you had other plans. Maybe the best things in life are like that! 
I originally discovered Reiki through my mother-in-law. She wanted me to get a [Reiki] treatment because she had had one. She lived in Denver at the time, and I lived on the West coast. So, the next time I visited her, she set up this whole thing, "Oh, you have to go get this treatment." I'm like, "Reiki? That sounds weird." And I was like, I'm like humoring her. That's why I did it. I got that first treatment, and it was so relaxing and peaceful. More than peaceful, like filled with well-being like filled with goodness and light.
I had grown up with severe anxiety disorders. So, I was always stressed, always nervous. And when I had my Reiki treatment, I felt just good. Like everything was okay, you know. I got up off the table, and I felt like I was levitating a few inches off the ground. I felt so light. Like all my burdens had been lifted. I just felt so good. And I'm like, "Oh my God, this is going to heal my anxiety." I never thought I would be able to be healed. I almost never even put that in my mind that I could heal my anxiety. I was just like, "I'm an anxious person. Oh, well, I have to live with it." The door opened that there was a possibility that my anxiety could be healed. I immediately dropped everything and had to learn Reiki. I found a local teacher. I also ended up studying the next time I went to Denver with a teacher in Denver, Martha. And it was Reiki from thereon. I literally started every single day practicing Reiki and just totally dove into it. I dove into Reiki, Nathalie!

DIR: Oh my God. I love that! Many of us who suffer from anxiety embrace Reiki as it is one of the few things beyond medication that actually help us. It gives us the possibility of feeling fine and not scared, which is beautiful. So how was that training? And what lineage did you train it at the beginning?
KP: The two lineages I learned originally for the first seven or eight years were Takata lineages or Reiki Shiki Ryoho. One of my teachers was Reiki Alliance [and was] actually very strict. It was very "Hands-on, Reiki on; Hands-off, Reiki off." That was like how I originally learned. 
And my practice that I began immediately was hands-on, self-treatment every day, as soon as I learned. And then my other teacher in Denver, Martha, was much less traditional and much more intuitive. She's also an acupuncturist, so she kind of brought in a lot of Chinese medicine philosophy and that sort of spiritual teachings along with intuition. She was much more like, "Well, you know, your hands will guide you. You have these hand positions to start with, but you can be more flowing and freer with it." I think it was nice to have both of those teachers and perspectives in the beginning.
I think it gave me a really good foundation for what Reiki is, and mostly for my own healing. What I always teach my students now is that Reiki actually starts with you. And even though you're here for your animals—because everyone who comes to me wants to help their animals—it starts with you. 
I learned that really strongly from my first two teachers about self-practice. I was able to really focus on myself. And it was interesting because when I was doing my hands-on self-practice, that was when my dog, Dakota, came and laid on top of my feet in this really weird way that he never did. And he only did it when I was doing Reiki. And I'm like, "What are you doing?" And finally, it dawned on me that he was like taking the Reiki space. He was like helping himself to some lovely healing energy. So, I sat down on the floor and put my hands on him. He rolled on his side, and he was like, "Finally, mom, jeez, I've been trying to tell you, I want Reiki."
It just didn't occur to me. I was so focused on my own healing. Dakota showed me that animals love Reiki. The other thing it showed me, which was kind of like a light-bulb moment, was that animals already know what Reiki is. For me, I had to take a class, I had to read about it. I was like, "This is confusing." And then my teacher would be like, "Well, just practice it, and then it will make more sense." And my dog's like, "Oh yeah, Reiki, totally. Totally get it. I'm taking this for healing. This is great. Thanks, mom!" And I'm like, "How do you know?" It was fascinating to me how animals are so energetically sensitive and very wise about energy. And so that kind of brought me onto a little different trajectory with my Reiki practice. I mean, I was so immersed in Reiki, and I loved it so much, and it was helping my anxiety so much that I thought, "I want to do this. I want to teach this." It just became bigger and bigger in my life. But then the animals were coming forward and saying, "But Kathleen, don't forget about animals!"
I was volunteering at shelters, and I was walking dogs and working with cats. I was seeing amazing responses to Reiki from these animals that were very stressed. I knew exactly how they felt because that was like my inner way of being stressed. And I'm like, "Oh, I know Reiki can help you because it's helping me." I would do Reiki with my horse, and people would walk by the stall, look in and go, "What are you doing? Can you do that for my horse?" And I'm like, "I don't know. I guess so." It just started taking over. That was kind of where it really began. 
I still remember going to dinner with my husband and my brother-in-law, and I'm like, I thought I would teach middle school my whole life. Now I feel so inspired about Reiki and also animals. And my brother-in-law said, "Well, why don't you do animal Reiki?" And I'm, "Because nobody does animal Reiki. That's not a thing." And he's like, "Well, why don't you make it a thing?" And I'm like, "Well, yeah, okay. I can. Why not? I can make it a thing, you know?" That conversation over dinner created something in me that [felt like] "It's okay that I'm the only one who does this. It's okay that nobody understands." I just knew at the core of my being that this is my purpose. This is what I'm supposed to bring to the world. This is what I'm supposed to do. So here we are, 23 years later, and animal Reiki is a thing now!

DIR: You made it! I am amazed because Reiki was already not that well-known 23 years ago. You mostly invented the modality of animal Reiki. It was really a big breakthrough at the time. Reiki is becoming one with the universe, but we keep it very much limited to humans. I love that you had that breakthrough. And I loved that it was someone who was outside who could see with fresh eyes and give you that insight. In our pre-interview, you told me your teacher's reaction to the idea of focusing on Reiki practice with animals. 
KP: Yeah. My very first teacher was like, "No, you can't do that! That's not a thing. You have to do all your training with Reiki. And then you have to teach Reiki to people you can't do [animals.] That's just not a thing." And I was like, "Okay."
Then I went to my second teacher in Denver, Martha. And I'm like, "Is this a bad idea? I want to focus totally on animals… What do you think?" And she's like, "Kathleen, that is the most amazing idea. And if anyone is going to do it, you're the person to do it. And I support you 110%." That was how I [started] because you have to have a teacher who will train you in Level 3 Reiki to be a Reiki teacher to go any further. I had to find that person, and Martha was that person for me. I'm really grateful that she saw potential and possibility where other people were like, "Oh no, no, you can't do that."

DIR: I just love that. When it comes to the Reiki system, we have to respect the core and the modalities, but we have to express it through who we are in our practice. For you, that's your expression. For me, it's a lot about our reporting and educating or mixing it with martial arts—we all have very different expressions of Reiki. As long as we do it based on who we are, not for marketing. So I think that is lovely. Can you tell us how your protocol to share Reiki with animals evolved from your practice with people?
KP: Yeah. So, you know, I love people too. After all, we are animals also. My first teacher gave me a lot of experience. She would send clients to me. I was going to hospices. I was working on hospital patients. I was going to people's homes, and people will come to my home. So, I was doing a lot of human treatments for the first seven years of my practice. And I had a lot of really beautiful experiences with that. 
I think some of the most moving ones were the ones with hospice patients and really seeing a deeper connection than just hands-on for a sore knee or a sore leg. [There was] something more important, something bigger kind of going on. I think that that really moved me. Some of those treatments were not conventional because they couldn't be touched if they were in a hospital bed. You could just sit and hold their hand.  
I remember my neighbor got hit by a drunk driver, and she got a brain injury. I went in to see her in the ICU to do Reiki. I sat down, and I just put my hand on her foot because that was the only place [I could.] I mean, she was so banged up! You couldn't touch her anywhere. And I'm like, "Well, my teacher would not approve this. This is not strict." I put my hand on her foot; I felt so much Reiki flowing through me. I got like pain all the way up my arms to my shoulders, and I was buzzing all over. I knew that that healing connection was happening.
The nurse had said, "She's out cold. She's on meds. She's not going to wake up, but you can sit with her." So, I'm sitting with her, and about 15, 20 minutes later, I hear this little voice, "Kathleen, I knew it was you." She's awake. She could only open one eye. She was all swollen. Her name is Stella, and she has this adorable cute little voice, just adorable… She said, "Kathleen, I knew it was you. I felt like I was at the bottom of this black hole, and I wanted to give up because I was in so much pain. And then I saw this light, and I knew I was going to be okay. It felt like you pulled me up into the light." It was so amazing to hear that, you know? Because we don't get that kind of verbal feedback from animals, right? And I was like, "Wow."
I didn't even do the right positions or anything. I was just sitting there with [my friend]. And I thought that is what is happening when I go to a shelter, and I sit with a dog, and the dog is depressed and listless, and there's nobody home in their eyes. Their eyes are just tuned out. I sit with them outside the kennel, and all of a sudden, they see me, and they come over and wag their tail. I would even have dogs roll in their back for me to reach through the bars and rub their belly at the end of the session. They would just come back to hope, into positivity through Reiki. It was pulling them up into the light—how she described. When she said that to me, I got the vision of all these shelter animals that I could see felt so much better after Reiki sessions.
The human practice gave me verbal feedback for what people experienced and felt that I could see in animals. It helped me make that bridge and trust a little bit more. But when I worked with animals, a lot of times, I couldn't touch them in the beginning. I tried to just use the hand positions that I'd learned for people and put them on animals. I would never start at the head because animals don't like that. I would start at the shoulders, and I moved down the body, and then I would end on the head when they were really relaxed from Reiki or something. So that's how I began. My first book, Animal Reiki, really shows that type of thinking; it was really taking human protocol and modifying it for animals.
But I had a little problem with that because some animals were like, "Sure, that's great." As I was doing it, some animals were looking kind of uncomfortable. And then, after two minutes, they would run away. I'd only get in like two minutes of Reiki. Then some animals would be like, "Oh hell no, you're not doing that to me." They would totally run, and then I'd be like, "But then you don't get any Reiki. There's no healing happening." 
That feeling of wanting to help and create that beautiful space of pulling you into the light, in a moment of suffering, bringing you into that well-being. How do I make it so that every animal feels safe and comfortable and I'm not pushing too much. Like, "Here's some healing energy, come back. I'm trying to help you!" And running after the animals. "Come back; the healing is for you!" right?

DIR: I've run after a few cats myself!
KP: I thought that it just didn't feel satisfying. It didn't feel right. It just wasn't good. So I'm like, "Whoa, what do I do?" if I would think, okay, who's like the most sensitive animal, like, let's say, a feral cat, right? A feral cat is afraid of humans. Doesn't want to be in a cage; he wants to be free. Their eyes get all big when they see a person. What do I have to do so that a feral cat feels the peace of Reiki and trusts me to step into connection. I want every animal, even the most fearful ones, to feel safe. I don't want to push my will or my agenda on them.
It was finding the instances where I was modifying the protocol for people because I had to. It worked and then tried to make it more comfortable for animals. Respecting them more, not wanting to dominate over them as the Reiki healer, but seeing it as shared decision-making—they can decide yes or no. That was where my protocol started to really go in a different direction. And the first thing I had to do is let go of hands. That was so hard because remember, my first teacher taught me, "Hands-on, Reiki on; Hands-off, Reiki off." That was really ingrained. 

DIR: Many teachers still teach that even though there is no mention of hands-on in the Reiki precepts—it's all about your state of mind. In your case, your practice forced you to let go of the hands because it's difficult to use touch on animals who have been abused. 
KP: Hands are bad for a lot of animals. They've never known kindness. They've been abused. So, when they see you with your hands, they look at [them] like they're weapons. It's really heartbreaking. I thought, "What if I just put my hands in my lap? Where's Reiki coming from?" These were thoughts that I had. If I looked at my own practice of hands-on Reiki, what was it doing? It was changing my heart. My heart that was so anxious and had so much fear was relaxing and opening and just feeling so good. I'm like, "Reiki really touches this [points to the heart.]". So that's what I say now to my students, "Reiki is about touching hearts, not hands." That was really my first scary, like, "Oh my God, am I still doing Reiki now that I'm letting go of hands?"
[Hands up] is a predatory position. I wouldn't even be across the room [holding my hands up] because I look like I'm going to pounce and attack. The hands had to be on the lap, not beaming, not doing anything. 
Hands-on the lap: animals would be like, "Oh!" Then I had a couple of animals I knew had surgeries or a torn ligament. They would come over, and they'd actually look at my hands on my lap, and then they would turn around, and they back up their stitches and sit down on my hand. They would literally be doing their own hand position. I never saw that coming. Animals will choose physical touch, and they will choose it in their own way. And you know why I never saw that before? Because I never made space for it to happen.

DIR: Because it's contrary to what we learn. When I learned Reiki for animals initially, it was about hand-placement, chakras for animals, and not doing them for more than 10 to 15 minutes. I was told that because they don't have limiting beliefs, they absorb energy faster.
When I trained in Japanese-style Reiki, I realized I no longer needed hands. But I love the fact that these animals actually wanted touch—albeit in their own way. You must have been so surprised.
KP: It was the weirdest feeling. I'm like, "Why didn't I do this before?" A horse would come and lean into my hands, and then they would move their body around. It wasn't in any order. It was just where they felt good. And I'm like, "Wow, animals actually have a way that they like to be." And not all animals came up and touched me. Some animals would lay down five or 10 feet away. Some fearful dogs would come and lay down behind me and lean against my back. And it was really important that I didn't turn around or look at them. I didn't even see them the whole treatment, but I would feel them very gingerly lay themselves. And I would hear them [sigh].
Some animals didn't want to be in my line of vision. Some animals wanted to be further away, some closer, some in my hands. And I'm like, "Wow. If I just hold space, animals decide what's comfortable for them. If I'm not pursuing some agenda, then I never scare them. If I just sit quietly, then they're always comfortable. They're always safe. The trust is built so quickly. That was a huge change in my protocol. I'm like, "Well, we can't do hands. We can't do hand positions anymore because we might offend somebody. We might come on too strong. We might make an animal uncomfortable. We might lose trust."
By the way, what you said about timing. The first ten years of my practice, when I was really just trying to do as many Reiki treatments as possible, an hour, 60 minutes, that was the ideal time.
A lot of that idea of short treatments is about our lack of ability to hold space. We get impatient because nothing's happening. We're not doing a protocol so that if the animal gets up and leaves, let's just finish. But guess what? You just continue to hold space. They come back. It's like an ebb and a flow. They walk in and out of the space, and they come closer, further away. But if you never just sit and hold the space, you never see them come back. Because you're like, "Oh, it's been two minutes. They got up and walked off, so I'm done. Bye. And you leave, and the animal comes in and goes, "Where did she go? I came back for more Reiki. She's gone already. It's only been two minutes!

DIR: I remember they told me if an animal leaves, it's because it's ready. It's funny because I easily hold focus on space for 15 minutes. I've learned to concentrate and hold the space for an hour, two hours, but 15 minutes—when I'm busy—it's the amount of time I can hold without effort. And probably that is common to many of us. But we blame it on the animal!
There is something I love that you mentioned: respect the animal. And your big Reiki aha or oops that change your perspective on sharing Reiki with animals even more. 
KP: Yes, that's like the second major change in my protocol that happened. And it happened from this mistake that I was making for such a long time, in human Reiki. I'd always learned to talk to the person about their issue and then focus on that issue. If they come to you and they say, "My knee is really sore," then you're going to focus the energy and place your hands around the knee. If they say I'm really sad, maybe you would focus on the heart. You're kind of trying to figure out what the issue is. Of course, Reiki goes where it needs to go. Still, you're having a conversation about what is wrong and focusing your protocol around that to some extent, right? That's kind of the way that I learned from both of my teachers initially. 
I noticed with animals, especially horses, taught me that the opposite was true. If a horse had a sore leg, and I went anywhere near that sore leg or even thought about that sore leg… their ears would go back. They would turn and look at me like, "Ugh, don't think about what's wrong with me. I'm totally fine." And they'd walk out. With cats, it was funny. I would go to someone's house to do Reiki on their cat, and the cat would be sleeping. I would stay across the room. I wouldn't disturb them. And the person would tell me, "You know they have this kidney disease, they're not able to eat, and it's making them very ill," or whatever. And then I'd sit down, I'd start Reiki, and I'd start going, "Okay. So, they have this kidney disease, and we want to heal." They'd wake up and be like, "I don't know who you think you are coming into my house and thinking about me as if I'm not perfect, but I'm out of here." And they would run off, you know? And I'm like, "Oh shoot. Are they really hearing my thoughts?" Yeah. They were. And they don't like you to focus on their ailments!
That's really scary that I have to monitor my own thinking because they're connecting, not only with what my body's doing… [but with my mind.] But how do I monitor my thoughts? So I would give myself affirmations. So if an animal was really anxious, I would think about affirmations of courage. I was trying to like create positivity, but I was missing a piece. I was missing something, and this did not come clear to me until I got breast cancer. 
I had the terrible experience of having the diagnosis and then going home and telling all your friends and family and seeing their faces and how they look at me completely change. Like no longer am I Kathleen. Now I'm a tumor. When they look at me, all I see is fear, pity, sadness, worry—varying degrees of that from everyone who looked back at me. 
It was the worst feeling. I felt I had lost myself. You don't realize how much you identify with the way people look at you, especially with people that are close to you, that you love. The way they see you is really part of who you are. When that is completely gone, I was like, "Where did Kathleen go?" It was extremely painful. I was already terrified of what was going to happen to me. And all of this made everything so much worse. 
Let me tell you, who in my life could see me still? My dog and my horse. When I went to see them next, they're like, "Hey mom, great to see you. This is awesome. What are we doing today? Let's go for a walk. We're going to ride today!" And I'm like, "How come my animals can still see me?" Then I realized, "Oh my God, I have been doing this terrible thing to the shelter animals and to the animals and hospice. I've been seeing them as broken, as less than. I've been defining them by their ailment. When they look at me, they see it reflected in my eyes everything wrong and broken!" It broke my heart. I realized I was in the shelter trying to do the right thing there to help. To support—and I was actually adding to their burden. I would never have seen it had it not happened to me.
That was the biggest mistake I ever made in my practice: defining animals and people by what's wrong with them and focusing on that. That's where my protocol completely shifted again in a whole different way. 
I say now—it's the third pillar of my Let Animals Lead method—is that we focus on the animals' perfection at this moment. Seeing that essence—like my dog sees when he looks at me when my horse looks at me—is always perfect. Doesn't matter if I'm in a bad mood. If my hair is messed up, if I have cancer, whatever it is—I'm perfect. And they look at me, and I'm like, how do they see that essence? I need to see that essence in myself so that I can get better. And I need to see it in the animals that I'm with. I just vowed I will never do that to another being. It's so painful. 
That's such a big thing that I teach now. It's so different: a protocol where you basically let go of whatever the diagnosis is, whatever the issues are. You acknowledge them and go, "Okay, yeah, but now we're doing Reiki, so in this space, you are the light. All is well. You're perfect in this space. It's filled with love and compassion. I think you have to see that in yourself before you can really see it in others. 
My cancer journey really taught me, "How do I see myself as the light in my darkest moments?" That was just a lot of what I learned through my journey. It's something that I always tell my students: "I don't want you to have to go through cancer to figure this out. So, I'm telling you right now. This is how you see. Let go of everything wrong. Nothing can diminish and dim that beautiful light within. It's still there. Even in the little dog who's passing away, that's very sick. I want you to see deeper than that. See their beautiful light shine. Be a mirror, reflect it back to them, remind them of that beautiful light. And then whatever's meant to happen in their journey—if they get well if it's their time to pass—they will be embraced in the light. Just like my neighbors, Stella said, pulling them up into the light. We can't control what happens, but we can create a space filled with love and compassion, and light in every moment. Peace in every moment. It's possible.

DIR: Thank you so much for sharing that. I know it's a very vulnerable story, so I really appreciate you sharing it. And again, I think he's great for animals, but for me, what you're saying is basically the essence of Reiki. You actually created the Let Animals Lead method, which has six pillars. Can you explain what they comprise?
KP: The Let Animals Lead method is something that represents the evolution of my own journey. The little lessons that animals have taught me along the way.
The first pillar of this practice is that it's based on Japanese Reiki techniques. Of course, that was my teacher Frans [Stiene,] which I know you've also studied with. When I studied with him, he presents Reiki as a meditation practice. When I learned that aspect and slant on the different tools that we have, that really opened things up. Because, of course, with animals, you can't use the hands-on protocol anymore. So, it's all meditation-based. All those Japanese teachings are really at the foundation and core of what kind of meditations I do—I do Reiki meditation. So whether it's the symbols and the mantras, Hatsurei Ho, the precepts even, are taught as like a mantra.
[You use them to] go inward and create that radiance that the animals can step into and step out of. The Let Animals Lead method is really about meditating with animals for healing. But at the base, the first pillar is those Japanese Reiki techniques. 
I always tell my students, there are six pillars. Only the first one is Reiki. It's really evolved into something more and different. Why? Because wanting to empower animals. Wanting to make them feel safe. Wanting to be able to deepen my trust with them. That sacredness of animals has really driven the rest of the pillars. 
The second pillar is about touch. We use touch only when animals initiate it. That is very different than what others have done in the Reiki community. In the beginning, you know, touch was just done. And then people started to realize, "Oh, some animals don't like touch. We should give them a choice." Which is good. Now the normal teaching is to put your hands on the animal but let them walk away. That's kind of the way that the human teachings have been modified for animals. In the Let Animals Lead method, that's not far enough. We never want to even go there with the touch if the animal doesn't 110% want it. How do we make sure [of that?] Let them be the ones to do it. 

DIR: It's like #metoo in a way.
KP: Totally. And especially when you're talking about animals who have trauma. This is not a mistake that you can afford to make because it may be very difficult or impossible to regain their trust once you've crossed that line. Your animals at home may forgive you, and it's not a big deal. 

DIR: Yeah. They forgive everything!
KP: Yeah. My philosophy about that is that if I'm going to give the utmost sacred respect and choice to a traumatized animal, why wouldn't I do that to the animal who is my partner in life? Wouldn't I afford them the same respect? Just because they're nice, I shouldn't take advantage of that. It's always animal-initiated. We never cross that line. Trust the animal with that. 
The third pillar is about that state of mind change. We focus on the animals' perfection. And that is very different as well. What's taught a lot in the animal Reiki community now is finding out the diagnosis, figuring out the issues, and then focusing on those areas. Some people use the chakra; some people just visualize light beaming to the sore ankle or whatever it is—but they focus on what's wrong. 
Because of my unique experience with how that feels negative when you're suffering, I said, "Hell no, we're not doing that." We're going to stand in the light. And we're only going to see the light, and we're going to reflect the light back. We're going to be one in the light. The light is all there is. Everything else just dissolves in that light. I call it seeing with your Reiki eyes, but that is really seeing. That's not easy. That's why we have to practice. So the focus of our state of mind is really important with animals, because, again, [they] sense your thoughts. They're going to become uncomfortable and resistant to connecting with you if they sense your thoughts going to what's wrong with them. Your vibration totally changes when you start going, "Oh my God, they have this skin condition." Or if you look at them and say, "You're perfect and beautiful." You're not denying that they have a skin condition. But you're saying that doesn't define you—I see more. I see that beautiful essence of you. 
The fourth pillar is something that working with animals will teach you: meditation is a way of compassion. It's not a physical body position. You do martial arts. When you learn your forms or even your meditations to prepare for your forms, it's very strict. Your back is straight. Everything is in alignment. And that's very important. 
When you're working with animals, you might be in a barn with a horse. You could be in a pasture with a cow. You might be sitting outside, under a tree with a bird. You could be in a shelter environment, and there's the public walking in and out, so you have to shift where you're going. You could be walking in a forest with your dog. In all these places, it's possible to be Reiki. If we understand that Reiki is not a physical position, it's our state of mind and heart. It's our way in the world. It's like a way of compassion. Animals understand that. 
If you have ever taken a yoga class or something, everyone's meditating at the beginning. You have your cute little outfit on, and they have music, and everybody's all shiny and looking good. But for all you know, everybody in the class is thinking about something else entirely, totally distracted, not even focused. And the teacher will look out and be like, "Yeah, look how great the class looks." And you look around you go, "Yeah, everyone's so namaste. It's totally awesome, right?" Nobody knows. Well, let me tell you if you were standing in a pasture of horses and you look perfect, but mentally you're out to lunch, your heart is not in it, the animals will know like that! And they will not tolerate it. They'll just be like, "Whatever," and they'll just leave. 
I work at the care foundation usually in February. Although I didn't get to go this year, I've been going there for 10 years, working with exotic animals, rescued animals like alligators, crocodiles, monkeys, like everything. They're so sensitive to your state of mind. If you don't have your whole heart in it if you're not completely open and in that grounded space, forget it. They will have nothing to do with you. No way. It doesn't matter how great your yoga outfit is and how perfect your posture is. They're like, forget it.
It doesn't really matter whether I'm sitting or standing; my eyes are open or closed. If you're with horses in a pasture, you have to keep your eyes open to be safe. You're going to be aware. They can spook; you have to keep your wits about you. How do you meditate while you're still present? Well, the point of meditation is to be present. I know some of us meditate to go off into Lalaland, but animals show us that that's not why we meditate. "You do your thing, honey, but I'm not going to be involved." Animals will be involved when our meditation brings us here. 
Again, meditation is our way of compassion; the physical position of our body is not. In fact, with animals, we have to be really flexible. If we want to be in the barn with pigs, we have to sit on a bucket and move around. My students at Bright Haven used to go out with the goats. They would come back, and their hair would be green because the goats love to chew on their hair, but they had been chewing on alfalfa. They'd come back, and I'd be, "How was your treatment?" They're all, "It was awesome" with a big chunk of green slime.

DIR: That is holding space, right? You're not distracted. They're chewing your hair, and you still sitting with compassion and not worrying.
KP: And they're there with you because you're with them. It's an honor that they chewed on your hair because they didn't run to the other path. 
The fifth pillar is developing mindfulness with animals for peace and healing. For me, the essence of Reiki practice with animals is mindfulness. Learning to be here. Now in this moment and everything we do with Reiki—if it's the precepts, Hatsurei Ho, the symbols and the mantras, if we're doing hands-on healing for ourselves in the presence of animals—we're creating this space of I'm letting go of all the other stuff. I'm here with you now, 110%. I'm here with an open heart and open mind. 
To me, that mindfulness is ultimately the quality that animals seek in us. I remember once I took some students to Guide Dogs for the Blind to train and meditate with the dogs. They were so like perfectionists about their meditation practice. They were sitting in a room with the dogs walking around. They're inward, totally focused. At one point, one of the dogs came and sat in front of my student and looked at her. She opened her eyes, and she's like, "No, I'm meditating. Don't bother me; I'm meditating. Then the dog puts one foot on her, and she's still [trying to meditate.]. Then the dog licks her on the nose, and she's still [trying to meditate.] Finally, the dog goes, "Whatever." He just walked away. Afterward, I was like, "Why didn't you engage with the dog?" And she's like, "Well, because I was meditating." I'm like, "But what's the purpose of your meditation?" And she's like, "Well, to connect to them…Oh! Okay!" It was like a light bulb. 
Mindfulness, being here now, being present—that's what animals teach us. We can't zone out and be floating in space if we want to be with animals. 
The sixth and last pillar, I think, is maybe the most important one. And that one is that we honor animals as teachers and healers in their own right. If there's anything that could heal the human-animal bond on this planet, it's seeing through those eyes. We often see animals as products. We dominate them. We see them like we're taking care of them, but they don't really know any better. We're like the smart ones. Spiritual practice with an animal teaches you that animals understand energy more. They're more expanded in their view. They are spiritual teachers to us. If we can see the world through the eyes of animals, for example, a butterfly, we can learn so much about transformation, right? 
To me, that is the path towards healing for our planet. That is what our planet is missing right now: that harmony, respect, and seeing the sacredness in beings that are different from ourselves.

DIR: That is such a change of paradigm. Because we always feel I going to offer Reiki to animals to save them. We never let them be our teachers and healers. In that sense, you had a beautiful experience with snakes and healing. Would you mind sharing that?
KP: Sure. A lot of people hate snakes, and I have to admit that I am afraid of snakes as well. And They're just different kinds of beings, and some of them are venomous. So, there's this whole thing between humans and snakes, right? "Oh my God, a snake!" Right. You hear the old Buddhist teachers tell stories about how you kill the snake, and that represents something. Culturally in folktales, [snakes are] always the villain. Look at the Bible! The whole cultural paradigm with snakes is like a negative thing. Right.
After I had my surgery, I went to the Care Foundation. I was still pretty weak and in a lot of pain. But I'm like, "No, I need to go and be with the animals because it's so healing to be there!" That year I decided to go into the snake room to do Reiki with Leah, the vice-president of SARA, and my best friend and partner. We haven't seen that [room] before. They have like three walls in a room, floor to ceiling of the glass, you know, cages with the snakes in them. They have a few that you can hold that are tame, but a lot of them are like rattlesnakes, cobras… a lot of venomous snakes.
It's a little intimidating to go there and have the Cobra come up with the hood. But we're like, "No, all the animals are beautiful, bright lights. We should go in to do Reiki." Leah was on one side with the back wall, and I was on the front wall. We were setting our intention to do Reiki, and all of a sudden, instead of saying, "I'm here to help you and support you with Reiki." I'm like, "I could actually use some healing. I'm feeling like crap. I have been through a lot in the last six months." 
I just had this intuitive feeling that these snakes were healers and teachers. There was a rattlesnake right in front of me. It was all curled up, sleeping. As soon as I set my intention and put my hands on my heart, he woke up and brought his head up. Intuitively I brought my arm up, which was in a lot of pain after my surgery. We looked at each other through the glass, and he started to dance, to slowly weave back and forth. I followed his movement with my arm. We were like dancing together. It was like such a powerful, energetic feeling.
I felt almost like my heart was going to explode. My lower belly felt really dense and weird. But I'm like, "This is the snake sharing. This is an honor that he's dancing with me." It was kind of overwhelming, but [I let the fear go.] As soon as I did, it felt good. We were just doing this.
His name was Kane. He was a cane back rattler and was about six, seven feet long. I had this weird feeling that of like a bigger view. I looked at the wall, and every single snake was dancing with us. There were like two or three cobras. There was a boa on the bottom part. There were like… 10 snakes all doing this, all of us together. I said to Leah something weird is happening. She turned around, and all the snakes went down, back into their sleeping pose… I felt so much gratitude. I'm feeling like, "Oh my God, snakes show compassion to humans and are willing to connect after what we've done [to them in] our culture... They are dancing with me!" When I walked out of that room, my head felt really spaced out, and the pain in my arm was 80% gone. I was brought to tears.
I think that all the snakes felt that I didn't see them as scary, bad, or creepy. They probably thought, "This is weird, a human that's looking at us with different eyes. She sees us as the light. That's really interesting!" 
That's what I've really noticed with animals: whatever species it is, they sense and feel the way we see them. It's so important for us to open our eyes and see the light because we are all the same thing. We're all this beautiful part of this web in the universe. We all share that, and nobody's left out of it. A lot of people are like, "Oh, snakes, no, I can never get in the snake room, Kathleen." And I'm like, "I respect that. That's okay. You don't have to go to the snake room. But I'm just saying, if you did, you might be amazed."

DIR: It's about letting go of separation and feeling compassion. I'm so grateful you shared this story. If I could beam your message to every brain in the world, I would! Because for me, that is the core of the practice.
I want to finish the interview talking about SARA, your non-profit. I know it's very relevant to you. What are some of your goals for the future?
KP: The Shelter Animal Reiki Association (SARA) was something I started after my dog Dakota passed away. He's kind of our mascot. It's sort of dedicated to his memory because he was a rescue dog. He was also my first animal Reiki teacher and my most profound animal Reiki companion for 16 and a half years. 
I thought of all the animals in shelters that never find a home and have faced so much trauma in their lives. Nobody realizes all the gifts they have to give and all of the wisdom they have to share. All the light that they bring to the world— it's like this untapped reservoir of wisdom and compassion in the world. Dakota was that for me. I thought, what if I never adopted him? I would never have known. 
I thought, what could I do to help and support [all these animals]? To recognize their light, their gifts, their wisdom. Share Reiki. When I'm sharing Reiki with animals, when I'm meditating with them, I see them as my teacher. I see them as the light. I shine that back to them as we've talked about. And maybe others will see it. If they can see me seeing it, maybe they'll remember it, even though they've been traumatized. And maybe the next person who walks through looking to adopt will see it too.
My goal with SARA to share Reiki with is as many rescued animals on this planet as possible. We should be in the shelters, in the sanctuaries sitting opposite them and being the light with them. We started out in 2008, so this is our 13th year. We went from about 10 members to now about 200 members. We started out as a program of volunteer practitioners going in and offering treatments. Now we have educational programs we offer to staff to volunteers in many different organizations across the world. It started out just in the United States. Now we're also in Europe, India, Canada, and South America.
I'm so proud of SARA. We're the only organization that does what we do. Not only do we volunteer treatments and teaching—but we also give back a percentage. When we teach a class to the general public at a shelter or sanctuary, we donate 25 to 50% back to the organization. We've donated hundreds of thousands of dollars over the last ten or 12 years. 
I'm so honored: the crew of volunteers in SARA are the best people in the world. They're amazingly selfless people. If you want to find out more about what we do and how to be involved, you can go to shelteranimalreikiassociation.org.

DIR: Where can people find your regular training and books?
KP: If you want to learn animal Reiki with me, animalreikisource.com. I have tons of different programs on there. I have a blog with tons of articles. I've got all my podcasts on there that you can listen to. And all my books are on my website and also on Amazon.

DIR: Kathleen, I really appreciate your time, Katelyn. For me, it's been a very moving experience. And I hope the whole world hears a lot more from you.
KP: Thank you for giving me this platform to share what I love and, hopefully, bring more people into that possibility of seeing animals in a more sacred way. I think it's what our planet needs right now.

DIVE INTO REIKI: Welcome to Dive into Reiki podcast. Today I have a very special guest, very close to my heart: Frans Stiene. I'm your host, Nathalie. I've been practicing Reiki for 15 years. I'm the author of two books: the Reiki Healing Handbook and Reiki as A Spiritual Practice. Frans is my mentor, teacher, and dear friend. He's been a significant influence of global research into the system of Reiki since the early two-thousands. His practical understanding of the Japanese influences on the system has allowed students worldwide to connect deeply with this practice. And he's the co-founder of the International House of Reiki and the Shibumi international Reiki association with Browen Logan Stiene. He has co-written some of my favorite books: the critically acclaimed Reiki Source Book, The Japanese Art of Reiki, A-Z of Reiki Pocketbook, and Your Reiki Treatment. And two very, very special books written from his practice, The Inner Hear of Reiki and Reiki Insights. But most of all, he's a fantastic human being. What I love about Frans is that he really embodies the practice 24/7 in a very joyful downward way. If you go to a class with Frans, be prepared to laugh, cry, hug. It's freaking amazing. So Frans, welcome. How are you?

FRANS STIENE: Good morning. I'm doing well. Thank you, Nathalie. Good to be here and good to be talking to you. It's exciting. I'm ready.

DIR: I have to say that [the first few years] I didn't understand Reiki practice very much. I loved it. I was very attracted to it, but it wasn't until I read your book The Japanese Art of Reiki that I was like, "Oh, that's what I was feeling. That makes sense." I got it. I think I'm still practicing Reiki because of your books and then your classes and retreats. So, thank you so much for joining us today. I'm excited because we're going to go through your journey. Still, we're going to be zero in on Reiju, also called initiations or attunements. I think you have a genuine understanding to share with everyone in the Reiki community. But let's start with the beginning. You were a party boy, and suddenly you came in contact with Reiki. Can you give me a little bit of your origin story?
FS: Yes. I was a big party person. I love dancing. I still love dancing, but I don't do it that often anymore. I suffered from a lower back problem, and I moved from Holland to India. I lived there for two years. And then I came in contact in the Himalayas with a lady who was a healer. She did something [to] me that triggered for me a really big opening and awareness [and got rid of the back pain.] I started to buy books on all sorts of spiritual practices. That was highly unusual for me! And one of them was about the system of Reiki, and I thought, "Well, that sounds interesting!" In Katmandu, Nepal, I studied Reiki 1, 2, and 3, and then for a year with Bronwen (Logan Stiene), I had a Reiki center in Darjeeling.

DIR: And how did you go from studying Reiki to teaching it? And I seem to remember you had a story that one day someone approached you like, "Hi, do you know someone teaching Reiki?" How do you feel confident enough to teach? What made you say like, "Sure, I can teach this!"
FS: Yeah, it was bizarre. We just had done our first Reiki 3 class. I've done many because I think learning never stops. This was in Katmandu. We were standing in front of Pilgrims, a really famous book store in Katmandu, just after we had done Reiki three, a training, which actually, at that time, was terrible. It was the attunement, and then you got a copy of a book, of course, and then, "Bye, see you later! Work it out yourself!" And this couple comes towards us. And, I mean, literally, in that area of Katmandu, there were thousands of tourists. For whatever reason, they picked us out and said, "Excuse me, do you know any Reiki teachers around here?" And we go, "Eh…Well, we just did a Reiki teacher class, but we have no idea. But go inside [the book shop] there is a notice board; there must be some people teaching Reiki. Then we went like, "Well, this is bizarre. How is this possible that out of all these foreigners walking around here and standing here, they picked us out? This is a sign." So we followed them back in and said, "If you give us a week, we will prepare a class. We will teach you for free, and you can become our first students." And that was it!

DIR: OMG. I would love for you to go from that moment, that first training, to the style you train now? How has it changed over the years?
FS: Well, the way I was taught first was very externalized. Everything was seen as something outside of yourself, you know? When I lived in Darjeeling for a year, I also communicated with Tibetan Buddhist teachers and practitioners. There is a very big community in Darjeeling. They were really pointing towards the inside. I started to have certain experiences, and some of these experiences I could not understand. So I went to a Tibetan practitioner. I said, "Can I explain this to you?" And he said, "Yes, OK. This is really what we're looking for in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition when you are deepening your practice. What are you practicing? Are you practicing Buddhism?" I went like, "I don't know!"
I was wondering what was I really practicing? And so, I went in 2001 for the first time to Japan; I've been quite a few times. Since 2012, I've trained with a Japanese priest. And that, for me, has changed a lot. Already, prior to that, really developing myself looking at the Japanese ideas of internalizing spiritual practice. Seeing where Mikao Usui's teachings came from. What was he practicing? When we look at these teachings of Mikao Usui—the precepts, meditation, hands-on healing, symbols and mantras, and Reiju, nowadays called the attunement or initiation—we can see that he borrowed from Japanese esoteric teachings, like Shugendo, Mikkyo, Shinto, Zen, etcetera, to create the system we practice now. So It has changed a lot for me.

DIR: I love what you're saying: going from external to internal. Some people have a lot of resistance because it's almost questioning our capacity as simple humans with issues to offer a space of healing. How can I be good enough to offer all of this from inside myself versus just being a vessel? What kind of advice will you give someone who thinks that?
FS: I think we're so focused on everything that's outside of ourselves. Also, I think it's quite challenging to go within for a lot of people. You know, if you think about Mikao Usui's teachings, and we look at the precepts, for example, they are in Japanese, "Do not anger, do not worry," where do we store this trauma of anger and worry and fear? Inside the body. Not somewhere outside, over there, but inside the body. And therefore, even when we say we are a channel, we have to be a clear channel. If I have a straw and if that's the channel, then the straw needs to have no hole, no kink, no knot; else, the channel cannot be a good channel. Even if we see it outside ourselves and think that we are a channel, we still have to purify it. And we have to go within because that's where we store our anger and worry and fear. But it's also challenging. I think a lot of people find it very difficult to face their fears and worry, and anxiety. This is why I think a lot of modern healing practices have become very externalized.

DIR: That makes complete sense. Obviously, the beginning was centered on hands-on healing. How has it evolved? What is your practice today, and how often do you change it?
FS: For me, hands-on healing, of course, is a birthright. You know, you see it's snowing [here in Holland] today. You see kids falling, and straight away, they put their hands on their knees, or mom and dad run over and put their hands on their knees. It's a birthright. It doesn't mean they all have been practicing the system of Reiki, but it is an innate ability. However, of course, we can do hands-on healing with anger, with worry, with fear, with not being grateful, not being true to our way and our being, and not being compassionate. And this sounds very simple, but actually, it's really, really deep. So if we can do hands-on healing in that space of true compassion—what is true compassion, no attachment, completely open emptiness, non-Duality, etc.—then, of course, hands-on healing would be something quite different. So for me, I see hands-on-healing as a byproduct of your spiritual practice.

DIR: For me, it takes a lifetime to get there, right? I also think sometimes we see hands-on healing like, "Oh, want to relieve the pain in my knee," or, "It didn't work because he didn't take away my headache." We forget that we are feeling calmer and happier. And that is a lot more important. So sometimes we go for this healing and fixing versus just the exploration of the self.
FS: Yeah. Mikao Usui pointed it out so clearly in the Precepts— it's all about the mind, the mind of no anger, the mind of no worry, the mind of being grateful, the mind of being true to your way and your being, the mind of being compassionate. As we all know, man, that is difficult. Shit, that is so difficult, right? Particularly at this time. So nowadays [we are into] instant classes, instant attunement/Reiju/initiation. And then we go like, "Oh yeah, but it's not working. I still feel angry. I still feel worried." Yeah, but have you sat on your butt to do your practice? Because that is where it takes place. This is, for me, so important. It's also why the Japanese way is essential if we want to become a better human being. What is a better human being? It's a human being full of compassion and kindness and love and openness.

 DIR: I was giving a podcast yesterday for martial arts talking about energy and breath. They were asking me like, "How can you feel the improvement in the breath? How can you become better in specific breathing?" I was like, "We don't have the idea of improvement in Reiki. We have the idea of going deeper and exploring." The host was looking at me like I am a madwoman, but I feel that is a significant shift in martial arts or Reiki. It's not really about fixing yourself. It's really about getting to know yourself or your true self.
So, if I could take a peek at Frans Stiene at home when no one is looking, what would I see you doing?
FS: [Laughs] Throwing snowballs!
DIR: Ha!
FS: For me at the moment, there are some very specific practices. I've been practicing with the specific instruction of my teacher in Japan, a priest, to gain of much deeper and direct experience of ultimately the Precepts. You know, the embodiment of the Precepts, embodiment of the Reiki 3 symbol and mantra, Great Bright Light, inner luminosity. And those for me are essential. So, it involves quite a lot of chanting, meditation practice, really learning to focus. I also think in our society, we are so unfocused! Why do we get angry? Why do we get worried? Because we get distracted by the past. We get distracted by the future. And we get distracted ultimately by the present moment. So the practice I'm doing is trying not to get distracted by past, present, future, which is really difficult. This is why I particularly have to practice till the end of my life because we have all a lot of shit.

 DIR: Yes. Welcome to being human. We have many times said that the core of the system is the Precepts, right? I think sometimes people see the Reiki system as very separate. They get their Reiki one and use the hands. Then they learn a symbol. It's hard to see the connection with the Precepts and with everything else. Can you elaborate on how the Precepts are the link that connects the whole system?
FS: Absolutely. For me, that's really the base. It's the foundation. I mean, you know, this idea comes to my mind that if we think [self-practice] doesn't matter, would it matter if I get hands-on healing from a junkie or the Dalai Lama? Of course, there will be a huge difference because the Dalai Lama is in this huge state of mind of Great Bright Light or kindness and compassion. And we all know that if someone is angry or depressed or worried and fearful that their body is [tense and constricted], their energy is like that. The mind is like that. So, therefore, of course, energy is not flowing. It's really simple, but it's so simple that often we don't see it because we like to make it complicated. But it's actually so simple: we [have to be] kind and compassionate—and I'm not talking about, "Oh, hi there" kind of kind, but true kindness, what is ultimately non-duality. Again, Mikao Usui is pointing that out within the mantras in Reiki 2 and Reiki 3 really, really clearly. And so that inner luminosity, your inner true self—what is that? That is the state of no anger, no worry, being grateful, being true to your way, and being compassionate. So the Precepts are an explanation of your true nature, of your true self, of that inner luminosity. And I think it's simplified too much, you know, we say, "Oh no, I'm never angry. I'm never worried. I'm compassionate." But if you are honest with yourself, then you realize that is not really the case.

 DIR: Also, there is no light without darkness.
FS: Absolutely.

DIR: What you're describing as called here in America spiritual bypassing. We are not in touch with the dark side of ourselves because it's uncomfortable. We don't want to be angry, but when we accept, it kind of washes away. If you run away from it, it becomes more insidious. I think it's lovely that Reiki gives you that platform to hold and be able to process those things.
FS: It's a little bit like this: if I would have worn this shirt a while and then wash it, of course, we see a lot of dirt coming off it. And we celebrate that because we know [that we will see] the purity of the jumper. But when that happens in our own practice, we go like, "Ooh, no, I don't want to touch it. Oh, I can see my anger, quick, let me go into Lalaland!" And therefore, meditation, mindfulness, yoga, Tai Chi, Qigong, the system of Reiki often has moved away and has become an escape instead of really dealing with your anger and worry and fear so that you can lay bare your innate compassion.

DIR: That is a big, big truth, and I think it's becoming even more so because we're teaching Reiki without any grounding techniques. Most of the training focuses on what we call the heavenly center, which is your connection to the source, to Lalaland, right? Because if you don't bring it into the body, if you don't embody it, it becomes spiritual bypassing because it's angels and happiness, and then you crash. You lose your keys, lose your job and become more emotional. So if someone feels a little bit emotional, "Lalaland-ish," and a little bit unstable after Reiki practice, what would you recommend?
FS: I was looking through the yoga sutras, and, again, even they're very clear: focus, don't get distracted by attachment, worries, fear, past, present, future. So, again, it's about being focused. Specifically, first of all, focus on the Hara, on your Dan Tien or the root and sacral chakras, for grounding and centering. Essentially in this time when there's so much stuff [in your head area], as you said, Heaven stuff, and we're not grounded. So we do this upside-down pyramid, and we go, "Weeee!" Therefore, we are so unstable. Therefore, we get quickly angry and worried, etc.

DIR: Yeah, no, I've noticed because some people are practitioners, and are offering many sessions, and then they are angry. And then they're like, "Why am I angry as a practitioner If I just study Reiki not to be angry?" It's a lack of grounding, right?
FS: It is. And this is why the essential elements are sitting on your butt and doing the meditation practice. But most of the time, we see the system of Reiki as, "Oh, you have the attunement or initiation, Reiju, or whatever you call it. You put your hands on someone, and we do hands-on healing on someone or ourselves. And most of the time, people go like this and fall asleep. In reality, they're just sleeping. They're not doing hands-on healing. And then we say, "Oh, the energy is doing it for me." We've become so superficial in it. Excuse me, but it's true. And it's really easy to check: if someone hits you on the head, do you get angry? Do you get worried? Do you get fearful? Are you reacting with compassion or not? I mean, it's a very easy checklist: the precepts, to know if and how you're doing what you practice.

DIR: The other day, I was in the subway, and we have many crazies. With the pandemic, I've become a little more nervous., This woman was screaming at me like 20 centimeters away. She had a mask that was falling, and she was screaming about love, but she was so angry. I could feel myself also getting angry. And then I got mad because I was angry. Because, yes, she was making me angry, but I had anger inside, to begin with. It was a nice check on my practice. I told myself, "I need to go and sit on my butt for a good while because I'm getting angry with this poor woman who's crazy!"
FS: This is it. This is a wonderful story. You know, if I have this cup with tea in it and someone knocks it, then tea comes out, not coffee, not Coca-Cola, nothing, you know, but tea comes. So if someone bumps me verbally or physically, what comes out? Anger or worry or love and compassion? If anger and worry come out, that means we have anger and worry inside of us. If love comes out, then it means we have love inside of us. And we can change that, you know? And so this is why we practice.

DIR: You have a very successful career. You traveled the world teaching. I wanted to ask you one question—and I'm asking this question to everyone. We always talk about growing as practitioners, but we seldom share our mistakes, our "Oops, what did I do?" I'd love for you to share one because I've learned my biggest lessons as a practitioner from my mistakes. I would love to hear yours.
FS: I think my whole career is one big mistake [laughs]. I think, you know, this is the problem… I think my biggest mistake is really that I often fall back on that ego thing. You know, the "me, poor me." "I, I, I." It's a very common thing for me. As you say, like anger, it's a really good tool to say, "Oh, Frans, you're getting distracted again with the "me" thing. There is a great called No Self, No Problem. Of course, there is a self, but if we have let go of the "I," the "me, me, me" thing, then we are OK. Again, it's in the Precepts: who gets angry? I get angry. Who gets worried? I get worried. No "I": no one home to get angry or worried. So yeah, my issue is sometimes I have very specific things that I find difficult to let go. But they are great learning tools for me as well. So, in a way, I don't see them as a mistake because when they happen, I realize, as you said, 'Oh, I need to sit more on my butt. I need to work on this." And so, therefore, they are great pointers for self-exploration.

DIR: You are a human and a Leo. So, the "I" thing is big for you! [Laughs]
FS: Meow!
DIR: Honestly, except for the photobombing every selfie taken on the street when you were in New York, I haven't seen you very much in the "I" space!
I wanted a little bit to zero in on attunements, especially with the pandemic. I've noticed that as practitioners, we don't have a deep understanding of what attunement is. For everybody, attunement, initiation, or Reiju are all the same thing—the ritual in which the teacher initiates students into Reiki practice. I've had people trying to sell me attunements for $40. I've had people calling me to get an attunement so they could sell remote Reiki sessions for a hundred dollars, but they wanted to pay me 30. And I've also had people saying like, of course, I can perform an attunement if I check my notes from three years ago.
This is not a judgment. That would have been my answer like three, four, five, six years ago. This is just the way we're training our community. Are we giving them all the information about attunements? There are very few practitioners with the depth you have because you've practiced probably like a million of them. I was very fortunate to get quite a few. Can you explain what a Reiju is? How would you define it?

FS: First, [let me explain something] because I think in the wider Reiki community, there is a misunderstanding about Reiju and attunement. They think it's two different things, but the word attunement doesn't exist in Japan. Neither the word initiation. These are English words. So in Japan, there is one word, which is Reiju. And Reiju has different rituals. They all do the same thing. Some are very simple. Some are very elaborate, and it would depend on the student and the teacher what kind of ritual you use. Some have no symbols and mantras. Some do have symbols and mantras. Again, that is not enough. Many years ago, one student said, "Frans, we can teach a monkey how to perform this ritual, but it doesn't mean they can perform a Reiju." So yeah, let's call it Reiju from now on, but remember: Reiju, attunement, and initiation—one and the same thing.
We often think it's just a physical ritual, but I can go outside here and teach this ritual to someone. They can do it in half an hour, right? It's not that difficult. That doesn't mean they can do Reiju. Traditionally Reiju is a spiritual blessing. If you translated it: spiritual blessings, a spiritual offering, spiritual giving-receiving. It means it's spiritual in nature, so if my mind is confused, full of anger, full of worry, full of fear, full of attachments. If my mind is not empty, right? Empty ness: no me, no you, completely wide open. If the physical ritual is not infused with this, it lacks the depth of it.
Traditionally [in Japan] where Reiju comes from, these rituals were only taught to people who became a priest or priestess. That means they already had a super, super long training. They were first a monk or a nun. Then they did the priest or priestess training. What was really, really intense, right? And only then were they taught these particular rituals because they knew it wasn't the physical ritual. It's your state of mind. And this is why the state of mind of Reiju you is the most important element. What is the state of mind? Emptiness, non-duality, and, ultimately, enlightenment. I've been very fortunate to have rituals like this being performed for myself by priests, priestesses. It was very, very different than anything you've ever "received."
For me, it's so potent, so clear that these rituals, their essence, are really how you've tapped into your inner luminosity. And not just a little bit. I know some people who say, "Oh, I'm one. I'm in this nondual space." Cut the crap. Really. Cut the crap. There is a Buddhist teacher who has a very easy test for you. I like him a lot. He's quite outspoken. He said, "If you keep talking about that you are in this oneness space, there is a very easy test: buy a candle, lit the candle, stick your hand in the flame and keep saying, I'm one with the flame. If you burn your hand, shut up and keep practicing." Because if you're one with the flame, fire cannot burn fire. It's very simple. But you know, we have these concepts, and we think so superficially about these. This is why we have to be brutally honest with ourselves and investigate and realize that the essence of these Reiju is ultimately non-duality, what means no giver, no receiver, nothing to give, just pure luminosity.

 DIR: I think it's interesting when you say no giver, no receiver, right? Often, when, as teachers, we perform Reiju, we feel we're enabling our students to connect more consciously with the ki. We're giving them the ability to channel Reiki. According to the lineage, the language changes. But you're talking that as a teacher, you're not a giver, and there is no receiver. So can you elaborate a little bit on that?
FS: For me? It's about realizing that you are Reiki. Mikao Usui again pointed out at this so wonderfully: that your essence is already Great Bright Light. He pointed this out in the Reiki 2 symbols and mantras and the Reiki 3 symbol and mantra. You are Kami [essence], you are Buddha. You are Great Bright Light. You are already inherently no anger, no worry, no fear, being grateful, being true to your way and your being, and being compassionate. But we've forgotten about this. We put all these layers over this beautiful, bright light. So Reiju is not that I give you light. I'm not giving you Reiki because you are Reiki already. Hopefully, during the Reiju, you can become aware that you are this luminosity already, maybe for a split second. This is why I like Mrs. Takata's translation: initiation. You will have maybe the initial experience that you are for a moment, maybe a split second, of, "Oh, here is my great bright light. Here is my no anger, no worry. Here is my compassion."
When we have that for an initial experience, we can use it as a seed, right, as a trace. Then we have to water that seed, of course. And it's very simple. Some people say, "Oh, but you'll only need one or two or five or four initiations depending on the lineage and tradition. And that's it." I don't believe in this. And it's very easy to test because the essence of the system of Reiki is the Precepts. If one initiation, Reiju, or attunement brings you into a full state of no more anger, no more worry, no more fear, etc.… Perfect! But we all know that even after 10 of those Reijus, that is definitely not the case. So it means one Reiju or one attunement, or four Reijus or four attunements are not enough.
You have to do it again and again. Again until one day, this initial experience is a full-blown experience. For the rest of your life, you're in this space of luminosity—no anger, no worry, and no fear. And even then, we have to receive more Reiju or attunements because even if I have a diamond and it's pure and clean, if I let it sit, it still attracts dust. So if I don't dust it, it becomes dusty. So again, we have to [keep practicing Reiju.] But nowadays, we are like, "No, only for only three!" And that's it for the rest of your life! Again, be honest with yourself and check for yourself. These four attunements or Reijus or initiation bring you into full space of no more anger, no more worry, no more fear, etc. Then we have to honestly say to ourselves, "No, that is not the case."

DIR: Every lineage has a very different approach. When we practice traditional Japanese style, we offer attunements in Reiki circles, which is frowned upon in some lineages. We all have different rules. But is there something you would recommend to anyone offering attunements, Western or traditional
FS: Well, again, it comes down to your own direct experience. To how deep have you laid bare your true self. That [is what] becomes essential. I often use a very simple explanation. It's a little bit like this. [Frans shows the light shining from his phone.] This is the great bright light. So if I do Reiju or even hands-healing on you and I come with my luminosity, I shine on you. Hopefully, you can find your luminosity. But if I am still in the dark, no light, because I haven't sat on my butt to do my practice, I still have a lot of anger and worry and fear, then I come to you and, of course, you might feel something. But you haven't had the possibility to find your light because my light is still covered with all this shit, right? True practice is that brightness is laid bare more and more and more and more and more. Then, of course, there is more possibility for you to find your luminosity. Sometimes we stick our luminosity in the furthest corner of our mind. So if only a weak light comes, that light is not reaching the light of the furthest corner of your mind. Does that make sense?
DIR: It makes total sense!
FS: The more I've laid bare my luminosity, my Great Bright Light, the more possibility there is for you [ to find yours during a Reiju.] But again, it always takes two to tango. So for you to "receive," [you need] to be empty, right? And this is, we often also don't know how to receive, because what does been empty mean? Empty of the self, empty of attachment, empty of worry, empty of fear, etc., etc.

DIR: Generally, I can see how sometimes when we have a very emotional or powerful Reiju, expectation can get in the way of a second one!
My next question is about Reijus related to upgrades. I want to have this podcast to present POV's and everybody will have a different POV on this. I don't want my next question to sound disrespectful to anyone. From the traditional Japanese POV, and yours specifically, what do you think of the concept of upgrades when it comes to the Reiki system?
FS: We only have to look at flower arrangement, Zen, in Japanese martial arts, all these Japanese traditions—they all talk about the same thing: non-Duality, right? And that you are the universe already. So how can I get an upgrade, right? An upgrade is dualistic. You have this, and now I get you this. And then, of course, six months later, they have to have another upgrade that probably costs a few hundred dollars. So, for me, it's a great marketing skill. [To put it] bluntly. And we fall for it because we want more upgrades. Why? We have them constantly on our phone: upgrade, next upgrade, wow! Now we have the iPhone 29, you know, X, Y Zed, and we get to buy it. Now we have an upgrade with our Reiki, and now we have Reiki Z Y Q what is even more powerful. But then we give our power away! Because we [already] are the universe. This is the most important element. What Mikao Usui is trying to tell us, and all these Japanese spiritual teachings as well. You are the universe, what means you have everything inside of you already.
DIR: In a way, it's an act of remembering.
FS: It's about remembering, yes!

DIR: What is your POV on remote a­ttunements? They're becoming a real point of dissent during the pandemic. So, I would love your honest opinion on them as well.
FS: I think this is a problem we have nowadays: that people think that [to practice] Reiki, all you have to do is have the attunement, and that's it. Now you are a Reiki 1. Now you're Reiki 2. Now a Reiki 3. They often think that the Reiki attunement makes you into a Reiki 1 [practitioner,] or makes you into a Reiki 2 or a Reiki 3. And we don't have to practice. "No, the energy is intelligent. It just flows wherever it's needed." We have simplified it so much, but if we think about it, like really, really clearly think about it, then ultimately we come to the conclusion that it doesn't make any sense at all. So, of course, healing, Reiju, we can go into that space beyond time, distance, non-duality. But if we are really honest, then that is very difficult.
Again, you can do the candle test. Do you burn yourself or not? So real non-duality is not easily experienced. And therefore also distance attunements or Reiju is not always [easy to experience.] we might say, "Of course it works!" Of course, we feel something. If I go, "Oh yeah, here it is. Yes, no, no. Now it's coming." Of course, something is taking place, but to learn the system of Reiki, we have to have not just the Reiju. We have to understand the Precepts. We have to understand the symbols and mantras. We have to understand hands-on healing. We have to understand the meditation practices. And ultimately, that is best done in person. Great that we have These kinds of things through Zoom. But you can only see me from [the chest up on the screen.] So even in some classes online, I can switch off my camera. I might be having a coffee and not participating in meditation. And we've done half of it. This is why all the Japanese teachers like Hiroshi Doi, Hyakuten Inamoto, etc., all tell us: please do not teach Reiki 1, 2, and 3 online. They are quite against it. And because they know there is so much more to just the attunement or Reiju.

DIR: No, I love that because I think the discussion has centered more on, "Do I get an appointment online or not," versus, "Will understand I understand the system well?" I think we put too much weight on the attunement when the everyday practice is what really makes a difference. Like I got attunements, some were wonderful, but after a few days I didn't practice, the "feeling" or "energy" faded. I hear a lot of people saying that "My Reiki is gone."
FS: This is it. Absolutely. The other day I heard someone say something that you can just draw a symbol over someone, and they are protected. That's it! Very easy. And I go if you can do this, please do it to everybody! We don't need a vaccine for [the] Corona [virus] because they're protected! No more Corona in the world. Just go and stand on Trafalgar square and draw [the first Reiki symbol] on every person, and then next! And then you teach it to someone else. So you give them a quick attunement, and now they can draw the symbol over everybody else. And everybody's protected, and no one has Corona anymore. And they go, "What? Eh? No, no, it doesn't work like that!" Yes, but you told me that you are protected when you draw this symbol on yourself or over someone. So, we have not just to be a parrot and repeat something. We have to think about it. And this is the most important thing. How can we think about it? [Sitting] on our butt and calming our mind so that we see things clearly.

DIR: We talk a lot about the concept of protection in Reiki, especially in Western lineages, but these probably represent 80-to-90% practitioners, at least in the United States. I do Reiju as a practice, not only a ritual, and one day it hit me: how can I be completely open If I'm protecting myself? Is protection coming from a place of worry which is not in alignment with the Precepts? Can you elaborate a little bit on the concept of protection within the system of Reiki?
FS: Well, I think it's generally in everything. The idea we have to ask ourselves is, why do you want to protect yourself? Right? And then we come to a conclusion, [that is out of] fear and worry. Fear, or worry of the self, right? Of the "I." "I" might pick something up. Now "I" have your issues. So it's all about the "I" again. When we soften that "I": no self, no problem, right? Therefore, [we need to practice] wide open. And this often is seen as being spacious, like space: wide open. We cannot damage space whatsoever. I can get a knife, I can cut here, but space will not be damaged. We need to understand that our true mind is like space. And again, Mikao Usui pointed this out very clearly in his teachings with practices like Joshin Kokyu Ho and the symbols and mantras in Reiki 2 and 3.

DIR: You've been practicing Reiki for many years. How do you keep your practice fresh and juicy? What is your goal for the next few years?
FS: I've never been really goal orientated at all— in work or life. It doesn't interest me. I'm just doing what I'm doing. An old friend who lives in Haarlem, where I live now, [asked me] "Oh, Frans, you'll be doing this for the rest of your life?" And I said, "If I don't like it anymore, I'll do something else, go and work at the supermarket or whatever." He goes, "Really?" I said, "Yeah, else I will do my students a disservice." I'm not very goal orientated. I'm just enjoying the moment as much as I can. It's not always easy. For me, the practice, again, is just being as much as possible in that space of non-attachment and beginner's mind.
When we have a goal, we're also holding on very tight: I want this. When we hold tight, nothing can move. So we have to practice with open hands. Then everything else stays juicy. This is not only in Reiki's system but [it's also in life.]. This is why practicing the system of Reiki is how we practice life. Right? If I hold my relationship like this [Frans closes his fist], then it will be suffocated. If I hold my work life like [Frans closes his fist again], suffocation. So, to keep it fresh, we have to hold it in an open hand, right? Without anger and worry and fear. It's very tricky to do and no attachment. Because if today, I sit and go, "Oh man, this is a really good meditation." And tomorrow I practice, and I go, "It's not so good." Why do I think it's not so good? Because I compare it to yesterday's meditation.
If we can stop comparing: problem solved. But this is the hardest part: to stop comparing. We can see this within the Precepts. Often people say, "Oh, but the precepts don't have the word comparing in it." No, not really? And they go, no, there's "no anger, no worry, no fear." But if you look deep within the Precepts, of course, you come to the word comparing. Not in written form, but it's hidden in the inner meaning of the Precepts. Why do we worry? Why do we get angry? We come again to comparing. And so if we can stop or soften out comparing, then our practice [and] life stay juicy.

DIR: Your practice is very joyful. That has been an inspiration for me. I only teach if I will enjoy it. Whenever it starts to feel like a chore, then I take a break.
FS: It's tricky [when] people start to practice Reiki to earn a living. I don't think it's a good thing. We [should] practice to have a direct experience of our great luminosity, of our inner luminosity. Then we can share that as a "living" or earn some money. Dogen, a Zen master, and I think I'm paraphrasing here, said: "within food and clothing, there is no enlightenment, but within enlightenment, there is food and clothing." And you know, for me, this is so important. We have to check also as Reiki teachers and practitioners what our motivation is?

DIR: Many of us are struggling to make a living, especially with the pandemic. Often when we learn Reiki 2, we want to turn it into our business because we enjoy it so much. But it's not easy to set up a business, and we are not well trained as entrepreneurs. And then, to make money, we start sacrificing or just changing our practice. And yet, the most successful Reiki practitioners are people who are living the Precepts. OK, and some people who are terrific marketing people as well! In my case, I'm grateful to freelance as a writer because it allows me to live my practice as I want to. Sometimes, however, I worry about practitioners just finishing a certification of a few hours thinking they are ready for professional practice because a paper says so.
FS: Yeah. Then we come back to integrity ultimately, right? Being honest. But we live in such an instant gratification [society]: quick, quick, quick; now I am a Reiki "master."

DIR: We have all been through that! I struggled to establish a daily practice, but this makes me appreciate a lot more because now I have a more profound practice. It's something one doesn't want to sacrifice that easily!
FS: Absolutely. This is why I like going to my teacher in Japan. A) he presses buttons. He's not taking any prisoners. He's checking to see; do I get angry? Do I get worried? Do I get fearful? Etc. He's keeping tabs on how I practice, the way I teach, and the way I behave. [Japanese priests] are very dedicated. I mean, [we're talking] about practicing from like four in the morning, till 11 at night for a week and a half or three weeks. Making sure you have as many direct experiences of your great bright line as possible.

DIR: Do you ever get angry?
FS: [Laughs.] I do get angry sometimes. But I think when I'm getting angry, you don't want to be in my neighborhood. I can't remember the last day that I got really angry. It was a long, long time ago. But then I have this; I don't know. I'm a Leo. And I feel like there's this black coming off my eyes, and I could bite someone's head off. I rarely have that kind of anger. It happened, of course, in the past. But I can't remember the exact date anymore—it was a long time ago!

DIR: I want my head to stay on my neck, so I hope I never see you angry! For those who want to reach you, where can they find you, Frans?
FS: They can find me on my website, www.IHReiki.com, or Facebook under Frans Stiene, or the International House of Reiki.

DIR: There are no words to express my gratitude for this podcast for just being the bright light that you are. FS: Always great to hang out with you and practice together. Yeah, I think this is important to laugh and have fun and do great things!

Helene Williams is a registered nurse and Reiki master/teacher based in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. She has over ten years of experience providing Reiki sessions in a hospital setting and has a well-established private practice. Helene has presented information on Reiki and holistic health care at two national nursing conferences, participated in a hospital-based Reiki research study, implemented and facilitated a hospital Reiki Volunteer Program and in 2013 established the Lancaster Community Reiki Clinic. She also has experience providing Reiki for Caring Hospice Services and actively volunteers at the VA Medical Center in Lebanon, PA. Helene is passionate about educating health care organizations about the many benefits of Reiki for patients, families and staff.

DIVE INTO REIKI (DIR): Hi! Welcome to the first edition of the new video interview series of "Dive Into Reiki With…" Tonight. For the first episode, we have a very special guest, Helen Williams. Helene, welcome. Thank you so much for joining.
HELENE WILLIAMS (HW): Thank you so much for having me!

DIR: I'm just going to give a little bit of your bio, so people know your background. Helene is a registered nurse and Reiki Master Teacher based in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. She has over 10 years of experience providing Reiki sessions in hospital settings and has a well established private practice. She has presented information on Reiki and Holistic Health Care at two National nursing Conferences, participated in a based hospital Reiki research study, implemented and facilitated a hospital Reiki volunteer program and in 2013 established the Lancaster community Reiki Clinic. She also has experience providing Reiki for caring in Hospice Services and actively volunteers at the VA Mental Center in Lebanon, Pennsylvania. Helene is passionate about educating health care organizations about the many benefits of Reiki for patients, families, and staff. We met at a retreat when our mentor Frans Stiene two, three years ago? And also last year in a wonderful retreat, last year in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. She has many, many surprises, and she is just an amazing human being, so welcome, and thank you so much.
HW: Thanks, Nathalie. I am super excited to be discussing Reiki healthcare and whatever else you decide to ask!

DIR: Actually, I am going to start with the first time we encountered Reiki. I think, you know, it is great for us. We all find Reiki differently: through Google, friends... What was your first contact with Reiki practice?
HW: So actually, I'm not even sure it was Reiki. My husband and I used to have a farm, and we had a little pygmy goat. It wasn't so little. He was a smaller goat. And he got stepped on by one of our horses, and we still had phone books. I was looking into the phone book for somebody, a veterinarian who might be able to look at the goat and see what he could do for this little foot because he was limping. I contacted this vet, who I had never heard of before. He looked at the goat. The little goat's name was Elvis. And he said, "This is what I want you to do: every day, I want you to take your hands, and I just want you to think about loving energy and let it flow." At the time, I thought it was a little crazy because I had never heard any kind of energy healing—Reiki or anything else for that matter. So I did it, and [the goat] got better, and then I forgot about it. When I started working at Lancaster General in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, my manager wanted us t learn how to do Reiki. Then I was like, "Oh, OK!" That kind of reminded me of this goat experience, and it clicked; things connected. That was my first experience with energy healing; just I was not sure it was Reiki. Reiki itself, I learned at the Hospital within like three months of starting there, so I was really, really lucky.

DIR: Yeah, there is goat yoga; we should have goat Reiki! You trained a lot. So I would love to talk a little bit about your journey, trying to find that thing that really resonated with you when it came to learning Reiki versus just taking a workshop.
HW: Right, after I learned the first level at the Hospital...Because I kind of connected with it, I was encouraged to jump to level 2 and [then] level 3, so I could teach Reiki at the hospital. For some reason, I couldn't find the teacher that taught at the hospital, so I googled Reiki and, at that time, they weren't a whole lot of people, but there was one who was close to me. So I went to her. She's a great teacher, but it was much more of a very Westernized form of Reiki. I did it, and it was wonderful, but I still felt something was missing for me. I started going to different classes. I learned Karuna Reiki, but I still felt there was this missing link for me. And it was really hard for me to teach the Western form that I have learned in a hospital setting. I needed something that was more practitioner based so that it could be a self-care practice as well. And although I knew about self-Reiki, it wasn't really emphasized as much as I know it needs to be now.
Then I found out about a teacher who was probably two hours away from me. Somebody told me, "Helene, you need to take this Reiki class." And I was, "Really, I took so many, what else can I learn?" It was actually one of Frans Stiene's students, and after the first day, I was like, "This is exactly what I needed." And it is, of course, a much more traditional form, where it's focused on the practitioner, mostly, doing their own work. That is kind of my journey. And that journey was probably five or six years.

Helene Williams.

DIR: Yeah, I loved when you told me you went to Sedona how many times for the trainings?
HW: Too many to count, and they were great trainings. It wasn't that there were not good trainings, they were excellent. It's just that, for some reason, I wasn't connecting with the way I really felt like I needed to when I started...really delving into my spiritual practice. I was really glad that I was able to keep going. To find something that I really connected with and blended so well with teaching in healthcare.

DIR: And I love that you still were so convinced there was something more, right? So you kept trying to go deeper, and I think that's the beauty of different lineages: we can all connect. Sometimes it's hard to find the teacher and the lineage that we need to really practice the way we feel is right for us. I am so glad you found the teacher!
HW: Yeah, you know, I always tell my students that too: "I am glad that you are here, and I am glad you are loving this class, but if you feel you need to add something in or if something is missing, then go and take another class from another teacher." I think that's really important, that we like, as teachers, we open that up and say, "Whatever feels right for you."

DIR: Absolutely and continuing education. I think that is so, so important as well, versus just training for eight hours … So, that means you practice like Japanese -style traditional Reiki. Will you define it that way, right?
HW: Yes, correct. Just that is more of a set of elements for spiritual development for myself—it includes the meditations, the hands-on practice, working with the precepts... Because to really hold that space for others, we have to do our own work first, and there is lots of work to do. I have 63 years of work to do! [Laughs.] So, the more we delve into ourselves, the more we can really hold that space for others.

DIR: When I took my first three classes—three to four classes—I basically wasn't even taught a self-care protocol, like the hand positions on the self. Sometimes, in our wish to help others, we forget that the base is us, and I think you also as a nurse you're already giving so much; if you don't have a self-care routine, you can risk burnout. And we will talk about that later. So tell me, what is your daily self-practice?
HW: Definitely, meditation. Meditation, for me, didn't come easily. It's taken a really long time to do that because I am a type-A; I am a nurse. We're always overachievers and tons of things to do, and we are always in our heads. So, it took me a long time to develop my meditation practice, but that's a really important component of my daily care now. So, meditation every morning, a lot of times in the evenings as well, and then I focus on the precepts. And that's something… that was missing from my earlier trainings as well. [Although they said] these were the precepts, it wasn't kind of pulling them apart and saying, "Oh, I got really angry today, let's pull that apart and see inside what's going on with that anger or where is all this worry coming from today." For me, the precepts are the foundation of the practice of Reiki. We have to try to really be the precepts, really embrace the precepts in all that we do, because that's what is all about—it's about healing our minds, right? Stress causes illnesses. So, the more that we can reduce stress with meditation and working with the precepts in meditation, the more we can heal our minds so that our bodies can be healthy and whole, as well. And then hands-on practice as well, of course. And I usually do that in bed in the morning.

DIR: Nice; when it comes to hands-on healing, I do it sitting because when I do it in bed, I fall asleep. I loved what you said about the precepts. A lot of times, I feel like the precepts have become like an Instagram meme, right? We post them, or we have them in pretty posters, but there is little teaching about how the precepts are guiding your hands-on healing, right? Don't worry about where to place your hands exactly, don't bring your anger, be grateful that you're sharing this space with someone, be compassionate. Or how they guide your meditation: "Why am I getting angry? What are my triggers? They should guide everything we do in Reiki and should be a guide for life. I love that, for you, they have made such a difference. You said meditation is challenging for you. What's the difference that you felt when you started integrating meditating with the precepts in your practice versus just focusing on others' care and not meditating as much.
HW: I don't go through a day without some kind of worry, right? I can sit with that now and really pull that apart. Not go down the route so much of stories, not that they still don't happen—the stories that I make up or things that I worry about or things that are going to happen. But when I sit in meditation with the precepts, I can sit and say, "OK, what is the story that you are following now? Is this realistic?" And then just sitting with it, not judging the story so much but just observing and realizing that it's a story. Then I can go back to my breath and my meditation, using the Joshin Kokyu Ho breathing, focusing my mind on the breath. It's like that with everything. And some days, I'm in my meditation, and I just feel grateful. Then I use gratitude, that Reiki precept of just sitting in gratitude and feeling wonderful. And of course, being kind, being compassionate, all those things, but you know, it's the first two that always trip us up: the anger and the worry.

 DIR: Yeah, those, and #fakegratitude in my case. "Am I grateful? No, I am not." I always check with my body to know. I would love for you to give some tips for people to deep into their practice. A lot of us we experience that: =we go to training, Reiki 1: eight hours; Reiki II: eight hours... I now some trainings, like the Open Center in New York and others are longer, but the average training is eight hours per level and then Masters, with luck three days. For Reiki 1 and 2 practitioners mainly, can you give some tips to deepen their practice? Three easy things they could do to really improve their energy flow, for example. 
HW: I was one of those people who did level 1, level 2, and level 3 in three days—and I did it a couple of times! I think that's why I kept searching for something else... If you are taking a Level 1 class, they talk about the 21 days of practicing. That's great as a jump start, but you have to continue after 21 days. Everything is not all rosy after 21 days; you have to keep doing the practice. So, encouraging meditation, and if meditation is hard for you, there is a lot of tools on the internet that can be really helpful. If you only want to meditate for two minutes, that is fine. Or, if you want to sit quietly and you are struggling, you can reach out to your Reiki teacher or a meditation teacher. Meditation, for me, is an essential element after a Reiki I class. And sitting with your feelings after the Reiki class and journaling about them. What's come up for you? Have things shifted within you? Sometimes things get stirred up, right? Sometimes we get angry about things afterward because something has changed and shifted within us. So self-reflection, I would say, would be the second thing. And a third thing, out of four, is just your hands-on healing, of course, and the precepts, just don't forget the precepts. I think Frans [Stiene] says the too: the precepts are the foundation and the outcome of the system of Reiki. It's everything that we need to really bring those elements into our daily lives. So that when we have, like somebody gets mad at us, we don't have the knee reaction...like we typically do. We can be thoughtful and mindful about it if we are working with the precepts and being compassionate to ourselves and others.

DIR: I think that is such a beautiful thing you said. A lot of times, when I get students, like, "I want to do Reiki full time, but I need to pay my bills." I tell them that we can do or be Reiki full time. We can do our jobs and be compassionate, be kind, be grateful, not worry other people, not be angry with other people. Then we are actually changing the world even further. Not all of us can live for Reiki practice, but we can Reiki into our lives 24/7 no matter what we do. So what just so said I think it is so beautiful and so crucial.
HW: Yeah, that's so important, too. When I was still working at the hospital, a lot of times, my coworkers would call me into a room where there were angry people. If something went wrong in somebody's care, or somebody was not happy with something that happened, they would say, "Hey, Helene, can you go into that room and do your thing?" I wasn't doing a hands-on session; it was just going on and being present, allowing all that energy to flow, allowing that loving compassion to flow… So, I was not always doing hands-on Reiki. It's doing the work on yourself, so you can go into this kind of situation and… and just be able to be a calming presence. And what a difference can make for people when you are just present and allowing that beautiful energy to flow.

DIR: I love that. We are going to take you all over the country and share your calming presence! Especially here in New York!
HW: It's not that it isn't challenging at times, that's for sure, but usually, a lot of times, it was amazing to watch how quickly the de-escalation can happen when you are just being in a space of loving compassion. People can feel that energy.

DIR: Imagine if most of us would do that, right, like I have a beautiful Reiki 3 student, and she told me, "I didn't expect my life would be so hard after the Reiki Master, right?" And I told her, "Listen, life still is going to have a lot of crap, but you are going to walk on the crap with calm and poise." You know you're going to be able to deal with it. Life is not going to be perfect or magical because you are a Reiki practitioner or a teacher. Still, you are going to be able to make it a lot better and improve the lives of others by just being centered, calm, and grounded. Allowing that compassion to go through. So, I love that you're not very focused on the hands.
HW: Yeah, yeah… absolutely, and I think that's a piece also for me that I was searching for: more about a grounding practice. I just needed something stronger to be more grounded because I suffer from anxiety a lot; I've come a huge way from where I was before. Sometimes it's still a challenge, but I think with the meditation practice. The way that I've been taught now, being grounded is such an important piece going into our daily lives, not only into Reiki sessions for others but also for just walking out into the world.

DIR: What would you say is the biggest gift Reiki practice has given you over the years?
HW: I'd said the meditation piece. As hard as it was for me, I think that was a key element. You know, we have to learn to quiet our minds a little bit. It is hard nowadays because of computers, cell phones, and social media. Our minds can't stay focused for more than ten seconds because we are so stimulated. So, I think the meditation practice is really an important piece to be really well-grounded and creating some space in our minds so we can go out in the world and be better.

DIR: I want this series of interviews to be very human. Obviously, we're amazing practitioners, teachers; we have an amazing practice... But I also want to talk a little bit about the biggest "oops" and the mistakes we have made. Ironically I have learned more from my biggest mistakes than from my good, calm meditation. I was wondering if you would mind being vulnerable and sharing one of your biggest Reiki "oops"?
HW: I don't know if it was an "oops," but it was kind of the way that I went about things when I first started doing Reiki at the hospital. I had no clue, there was no real precedent for me to follow, so I kind of had to find my way. The first time—actually it was the second time—because the first patient that I ever did Reiki for, he was just in so much pain, it didn't matter, he was like, "Whatever it is, I want it." And it did help him a lot. But the second patient that I went in to see, you know, I just knocked on the door, said, "Hey, I am Helene, I do something called Reiki, would you like to try a session?" And she said, "Well, tell me what it is?" And I came out with the standard "it's universal life force energy" explanation. She just kind of looked at me like I had three hats and said, "No, thank you. I don't think I want anything like that". It was for me learning how to be thoughtful about how I explain Reiki. I think it is so individualized, because you go and chat we people first, and kind of see where they are coming from, and then tailor your definition to the understanding they might have already, because now Reiki is more well known that when I first started, so it makes it a little be easier.

 DIR: I love what you said, because I think a lot of us when we start being practitioners, we go like, "Do you know Reiki? Reiki is blablablabla," and we give a whole speech. What you are saying is listen and then explain, and check if they know or not about Reiki or not, what their perception is. That is such a great tip for practitioners in general. 
HW: Some people knew there was a program there, so they would Google something before I came in. That was not always a great thing because sometimes you can Google and get good information and maybe not so great information. So it would be like, "Oh, it's this, and this, and this," and I would like, "Well, you're on the right track." But how can we explain it in a better way, so there is more understanding?

DIR: I think it's really great we can frame it in the healthcare world; how would you explain it now? Imagine that I am not Nathalie, I am a person not close-minded, but I do not have very much idea of Reiki, and I am probably in pain, on a bed. How would you approach me right now? Maybe we can do a little bit of role-playing. 
HW: Yeah, absolutely. So, I knock on the door, ask you how are you doing, if I can talk to you for a few minutes and… Is your name still Nathalie?

DIR: Yes, but I do not have an accent! [Laughs.]
HW: OK. So, I'm a Reiki practitioner, and I share Reiki with patients at the hospital. I was wondering if you would be interested in a session today, but before we even go down that road, I would like to know if you ever heard of Reiki…

DIR: I've heard of Reiki, some people say it's like a massage with no hands, and then other people say that you just put the hands and the pain goes away, but I really don't understand how it works.
HW: Well, Reiki can be done with hands-on or hands-off, so that piece is definitely correct, but it's really about the practitioner just moving in a space of quiet, peaceful energy and allowing that energy to flow to you, where you need it. Sometimes it's a little hard to understand, but it's more experiential. What I would like to do is do a short session for you, maybe just for five minutes of being quiet, maybe turning down the lights a little bit if you are OK with that. If you want to, we can play some quiet music and just allowing you to experience this loving energy. Then we can talk a little bit more about it afterward, about what your experience was with it. And if you feel you connected a little bit, we can do a longer session.

DIR: I love that because it's so hard to explain Reiki; it's great to use their experience and then using their own words to guide them. I think that is brilliant, and I am stealing that from you, like so badly. 
When in healthcare, there are a set of rules; it's different from your personal practice. So, what would you say are the main differences in terms of bringing a practice that maybe is more Western or uses more symbols into a hospital or a healthcare environment, whatever that is.

HW: Yeah, to keep it as simple as possible. When you go into a hospital, you can't practice anything in a hospital unless there is research to support it. We can talk about it later, maybe, but that is an important element. Still, as far as going in and starting a program, you need to know that hospitals, of course, have policies and procedures, so it's not as easy as always just going in and say, "I want to do Reiki." There has to be a protocol. There has to be usually a mentorship, so people who have never been in a hospital before, know what to expect in that kind of setting because sometimes it is a little shocking for practitioners to go in, who aren't used to people suffering or seeing blood or things like urine, people throwing up, right? There are all these surprises that you don't expect because you just want to go in and help people not be in pain, and things like that. But you have to know that it has to be done in a structured way. So when we started our Reiki volunteer program, we created a manual of structured hands positions for the hospital setting so that it was a protocol, pretty much, because it kind of had to be that way in order to pass all the powers that be. The hand positions were pretty much around the head, the arms, the knees, and the feet because you have to remember that people had surgery. If they might have had surgery in their abdomen, we don't want to touch them on their abdomen. You want to be very careful in talking to the patient: "This is where you can expect my hands to be placed. Is that OK with you?" Just like I do in my private practice as well. Just so there are no surprises for the patient, but there are a lot of steps to get to before you get to even the patient part. There are things as simple as knowing how to put a hospital bed up and down safely because that is an important safety thing in hospitals: preventing falls. If you put a hospital bed up and you leave with the bed up, and the patient gets out of bed and falls, that's not good. There are a lot of things you have to think about going into that kind of setting that is definitely more structured. Not that it can be an intuitive session at all, where maybe you aren't quite following the hand positions—we just want to have a roadmap, basically, [with a] protocol and the way we speak about it. There is a lot that goes into it.

DIR: There is a couple of things that I think are really important: uniformity is for people just to feel safe; it's not about limiting your practice. [To create] a sense of safety, because you have, first of all, patients from systems, people who do not believe in anything, so you want to make it very simple and paired down. The other thing I like is when you say it can be intuitive, but you have to follow [the protocol]. Sometimes we perceive intuitive Reiki as being better than just hand-on positions. If, as a practitioner, you're in a place of compassion, your energy flows free. What seems limiting can also be an opportunity to grow as a practitioner. If you have to do six hands positions, make sure you do them with all your energy at it doesn't limit you because you can't do the practice as you want to. So, I think limitations imply an attitude of "how can I grow as a practitioner" versus complaining. I was hearing a lot of people starting the programs that are already established, and for them to follow the protocol—some programs they just hover, some use only touch—is difficult because it's different from the way they\ practice, but I would love for them to understand how important it is to create uniformity and protocols for the hospitals to feel safe for the patients, right?
HW: Rights, the hospital needs to know that things are structured because that is how it works. It's a part of a hospital environment. You're so right about being present for the patient. Sometimes we think that "If I don't have my hands at a certain place, the energy is not going to flow," but it always does. We set an intention, too. I also talk to patients about intention because a lot of older people don't really understand what that means. So, we talk about that a little bit too before the session—setting an intention because that's what Reiki should be doing in that kind of setting: empowering the patient to work on their own healing process. That's what Reiki is helping with, self-empowerment.

DIR: That is amazing. Honestly, I am taking that tip up because I always say, "Set your intention to receive healing," and I never considered someone may not understand it. I think what you're saying is very valuable: let's not assume they know our Reiki language. To take a step back and make it very approachable for them. 
HW: Yeah, and I think the whole part about being present. We have to be present so that we can make sure that we're communicating clearly. That's a really important piece in that setting. That we have really clear communication. And I have been in settings already where I go to a patient's room, and I've said, "I think you signed up for a Reiki session. Would you like it? And somebody got really angry and said, "No, we absolutely don't want it." Then I have to ask why. It's because they've had a bad experience at another healthcare facility where a practitioner had come in and not even talked to the patient and was drawing the symbols over the patient. The family was sitting there, and they had no understanding of what was happening. It was really scary for them. So, I think we need to be very clear in our communication when we try to explain what Reiki is and how we do it. And so, just being present is really important. When I talked to that family, I said, "Can you tell me why?" And they, of course, told me the story, and then I was able to re-educate them, and they were OK with the session then.

DIR: Oh, that is beautiful. I am hearing that we have to put patients first and listen to them first rather than put our practice first. In the end, we have to ask ourselves, is it an ego thing? We really need to take that step back and put their wellbeing front and center. 
I know you have been trying to elevate the standard about how we train for healthcare—if I'm a nurse. I want to bring Reiki to a hospital, what can I do to make sure I am getting a real good practice. Also, what steps should I take not to burn out? 
HW: I think researching is good. I get people that call me and interview me to ask about my experience, and I think that's really important. I think that's really important to do with any Reiki practitioner. If you're going to take a class from somebody, call them up and say, "What's your practice like? How do you teach?" Make sure you're connecting with somebody who may have had some experience doing Reiki in healthcare settings. Ask them what kind of practice they are doing, if it's a structured practice. There was a practitioner—I'm not exactly sure where it was—they were doing tarot card readings before the Reiki sessions in the hospital, and that's not a typical standard of practice. Asking a lot of questions about how the person practices, and make sure that they have some experience in healthcare. And there are people out there who are doing it. Just make sure that there is some kind of protocol that is followed. What was the second question? I am sorry, Nathalie…

 DIR: My bad, I'm being a bad interviewer. Because also, some teachers like you give a credit that is also valid for nurses, right? For example, I'm not qualified for that—I just can train in regular Reiki. If you are a nurse and want to practice in hospitals, your teacher should be someone [who can give you credit and be a nurse.] Can you talk a little about the credit? 
HW: Every two years—at least in Pennsylvania—nurses have to have 30 hours of continuing education credits. So, it's a great way for nurses who want a self-care practice and also get their contract hours in for their state licensure. I applied through the American Holistic Nursing Association for my continuing education credits. And it's definitely a process. It's a lot of paperwork to fill out but helps you to really define your programming as far as teaching. So, I have a Reiki I for health providers Reiki Class. That's a two-day class and has 12 continuing education credits. So when you apply for that type of thing, you have to also, for nursing anyway, you have to have a nurse planner, so I had to contract with a friend of mine who does that so she could be part of that process. It's a requirement because they want it to be very educational and solid. That's why I think traditional Reiki practices are also great for healthcare because it's all about focusing on the precepts, it's all about meditation, it's all about taking care of yourself with hands-on practice. So it's very easy to teach. Not that you don't get the application returned three or four times with little tweaks, but it's relatively easy to get something like that approved for continuing education hours.

DIR: I love a couple of things about what you said: a solid practice and a solid understanding of the practice. But also, if you are a nurse and you are going to be offering Reiki in hospitals on top of your nursing job, if you don't have solid self-care, burnout is going to happen. And I don't know if you have any experience with burnout or any experience with burnout, and what advice can you give them?\
HW: Yeah, burnout, [even] before COVID, it was a real problem. Of course, it really is now again. I think that's one of the reasons I am really a proponent of teaching Reiki in hospitals because the staff needs a structured self-care program that they can do for themselves every day. So definitely Reiki, if you can take Reiki classes on your own or whatever [healthcare] setting [you're working at], it's just a really great self-care practice. 
The other thing is setting boundaries. It's an important piece of avoiding burn out. Not only for RNs [registered nurses] but also for Reiki practitioners because innately we want to hear people's stories and people like to share their stories, but we also have to be mindful of respecting… people's time and our time. Being able to set boundaries, which was a really hard thing for me to do because I am a hand holder; I worked for hospice for five years, so I like to sit and listen, but you need to remember that you need to take care of yourself. Setting boundaries is a really important piece. Also, self-reflection and journaling are an important piece too of avoiding burnout. Or working through burnout if you are feeling like you're getting there. Reflecting on your Reiki practice and what you need to do in order to really care for yourself. It's really always about filling your cup first. People in the healthcare industry are such givers; they just want to give and give until it is too late and you're tired, you're burnout, and you're angry, and you don't want to do it anymore. But the same thing could happen with Reiki practitioners if we go to a hospital and volunteer for a two-hour shift of sharing Reiki with the patients, and we end up only seeing two because we are a little too involved and not able to set boundaries. So that's really important. Not taking on people's things. It's part of boundary settings, of course, and doing your self-practice as a practitioner. Just recognizing that we need that self-care piece and sometimes knowing that it's OK to walk away and say, "No, I can't do this tonight," or whenever it is you are going in. Saying. "I'm really feeling depleted today, and I don't think I can be the best I can if I need to go in and do Reiki at the hospital this evening, so I'm going to take some time for myself tonight, refresh myself and then go back next week or whenever.

 DIR: That takes guts and being brave and brutally honest, and I see that's also not the usual woo-woo perception of Reiki. We see Reiki as very angelic, and we think of practitioners as angels always saying yes. Reiki should be more human, and part of being balanced humans, as you said, is accepting that it's OK if we can't do it. We have to be responsible with ourselves first and then others. To communicate it and then set boundaries. 
HW: We are human beings, right? Whether we are Reiki 1 practitioners or Reiki masters is all the same thing. We still have times that we experience a lot of stress in our lives. It's kind of pulling back and saying, you know, I'm not feeling great today, so I'm going to take a break. Just recognizing that within yourself. Because when you push and push and push, you just get burnout, and you don't want to do it anymore.

 DIR: I think there are a couple of great things for what you said, we always… we hear it from Frans [Stiene], and we hear it from Japanese monks, "If you don't have tea, you cannot serve tea." Sometimes, when we feel bad about doing that, we have to remember we can't really serve tea if we do not have it. And I think it's that again being human. We take an eight-hour class, and we forget the word practice. I am a Reiki 1. No, you are practicing Reiki 1. It's an ongoing thing, and some days are going to be hard, some days are going to be good; that is part of the practice. It's not that we get an attunement, and we are magically a Reiki 1 person who is going to behave at a higher level of consciousness. That's a little bit of a fantasy. It's beautiful, but it's not helping us to really understand Reiki as a practice. That Reiki is sitting on your bum and embracing all your feelings, as you said at the beginning, going back to the precepts. Am I angry? Let me deal with it. Not, "I should not feel angry because I am a Reiki attunement." I see healthcare can make Reiki even more human—the need for being human and down to earth is even more important in that framework.
HW: Yeah, definitely. While the attunement is a wonderful spiritual blessing, you know, it doesn't mean we don't have to do our practices. We have to do our practice...keeps going for your entire lifetime; it's part of the whole journey. Reflecting on the It journey, where you were and where you are, it's just so important. Recognizing when you are not feeling good, your worry and anger are coming in and taking the time to work on yourself. Because you are going to be so much better for everyone else if you, instead of pushing yourself constantly and trying to be this person that maybe thinks that needs to be up here, but we are all the same… me and you going through this journey trying to find the right way and in a peaceful place.

DIR: I am going to open the chat to questions. Meanwhile, I wanted to point out that you have hundreds of hours of experience, but you still do continuing training. I would love it if you talk a little about what you do to keep going deeper into your practice.
HW: I go to Reiki retreats. I do online things a lot since this is a great time [to do so]. Not necessarily Reiki classes, but delving deeper into your own practice, meditation work, and things like that... For me, it's ongoing education, and I think that's just so important. I've heard of people who took one Reiki class, and they are Reiki Master. They haven't taken a class for 20 or 30 years. There's been so much that's been learned about Reiki history and even, of course, delving deeper into your own spiritual practice that you can learn by going to more and more trainings. It's this endless journey, and the more we can have tools that we can connect with to go deep within, the better for the people that we live with, and the people we encounter every day, people that we work with, just for the whole world.

DIR: You and I go to the same retreats. Sometimes we hear the same things, but because our practice has moved one or two years, we understand it differently or understand different layers. Sometimes you can go to the same kind of trainings but because you are in a different place you get more subtleties. Sometimes it's not like having to do 300 different trainings but just …. Even like sharing time with people you have been practicing for years, sharing points of view, and those reflections you mentioned. That's why it's so important to have a community to share. Clare, she is a Patreon member, and she just commented, "I got my attunements and expected that it would bring many changes. I realize now that the practice is ongoing." She also asks, "Do you share your hospital protocol plan with other practitioners who would like to start a program in a healthcare setting?"
HW: I don't because every hospital program is going to be different. You're going to have to tailor it to a program of the hospital that you are working with …. I have a Reiki in Hospitals workshop that I do for Reiki practitioners that kind of gives you ideas on how to set that kind of thing up, but as far as the whole protocol...I can't share the protocol from a hospital because that's their information. [However,] I can give guidance on to that end. And again, I do that in a workshop that I do.

DIR: That makes sense because those protocols are confidential to every hospital, and at the end of this interview, I will give all of Helene's information so you can reach out to her, see her website and her volunteer clinic. Since I met Helene, I gravitated to her. We were 43 people in a room, and, among a bunch of calming presences, she was a big calming presence— loving and light. I was really grateful we were able to meet again and deepen that connection last year, but I really want to say how much I admire what you do and your work and how much effort you put into it, and also how grateful I am that you are sharing this [wisdom] with everyone. We don't talk a lot about Reiki in healthcare… we talk a lot about peace and love, but we do not talk about the details. Yet these make all the difference when we are going to take our practice into everyday life. One thing is a beautiful workshop, but when you get into hospitals, you need to apply your practice. So, I'm really, really grateful. 
HW: Thank you, everybody, for coming, for being here tonight. I am really grateful. I love talking about Reiki in healthcare, so Nathalie will share my information. If you have questions, please contact me. Thank you, Nathalie!

DIR: Thank you, Helene; I really appreciate you being my first guest!

You can find out more about Helene at: https://www.helenewilliamsreiki.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/helenewilliamsreiki

Insta: https://www.instagram.com/reikihelene/

Drawing inspired by Helene Williams and the idea of “self-compassion.”

How do we explain to our clients or friends what happens during a remote session? And how do we do it in a way that makes sense? It's a difficult question to answer and one that, as everything in Reiki, will vary from lineage to lineage and to whom we communicate. 

The first step is to answer that question for ourselves as practitioners. 

As a starting point, we could ask ourselves, what happens during an in-person session? Are our hands doing the healing or are they helping us focus our energy and remember that deep sense of interconnection in which healing takes place?

If the healing happens by the union of our heart-mind, then a remote session is just one in which we don't use hands as reminders. We enter a space of deep concentration and interconnection in which time and space are irrelevant, and healing takes place. 

In more Western lineages—where the practitioners are channelers of the universal force, not an embodiment of the universe themselves—it's still all about interconnection. Although hands are used to "send Reiki energy" to recipients through the use of proxies (dolls, pillows, etc.), if you think about it, they are not really touching the person or pointing in the direction so that Reiki vibes reach the right location. 

Our hands are, once more, tools for awareness and focus, for remembering our interconnection with every living being (in the case of the remote session, with one in particular.) The remote session protocol is, therefore, a ritual to let go of mental limitations like time and distance and remember our true interconnected essence. 

These concepts are pretty high-level and may not make sense to many of our clients. Developing a sense of what to say is an interesting exercise. In my case, I keep it very simple. This is one of my favorite explanations: 

Reiki practice is based on the concept that we are all interconnected. During the session, we'll enter a meditative state where time and distance are irrelevant. I will hold the space energetically and offer everything you need to empower your own healing process. 

If you have not done it yet, I would like to invite you to write a description of remote sessions in your own words, based on your direct experience. Do it just as an exercise, it doesn't need to be shared in public, and see what comes up for you.

Love,
Nathalie

PS: When you sign up for my Patreon, you get access to exclusive content like this + over 75 classes and meditationS.

I've always liked the physicality of Reiki. Of bringing mind and body together through hands-on healing, chanting, or the breath. I've been reading an excellent book about body awareness. I wanted to share a few insights about kinetic sense, feelings of being embodied, and wellbeing that really felt relevant for Reiki practice.
In the simplest explanation, your kinetic sense allows you to feel where your body is and to manage movement. That implies vast amounts of data being processed. For example, if you are walking on an incline, the brain will sense through the body all the necessary adjustments to be made for walking efficiently. Your kinetic sense also allows you to feel muscle pain, tension, and relaxation.
Your kinetic sense, however, goes beyond sensing your body. When you are stressed out about something, you notice your abdomen tightening. A kinesthetic experience is, therefore, an emotional experience. People who can't listen to their bodies are not fully connected to their emotions. And by being less in touch with their bodies, they may also suffer from a lack of muscle flexibility, which in turn can affect their perspective in life.
"Kinesthetic awareness affects your physical and emotional flexibility. These two types of flexibility are not separate; they support one another. When your kinesthetic sense is clear, you can experience your feelings as they occur. Essentially, this means you know yourself. As a result, you are more flexible in dealing with stress and better able to make choices about your life circumstances," explains Craig Williamson in his book Muscular Retraining for Pain-Free Living. "We would need to understand the importance of kinesthetic awareness, to stop being disembodied people, and to become embodied people."
Many times we believe that the hand-positions order or sequence is one of the most relevant variables in a Reiki treatment. But when you read this, it points towards awareness as the crucial element of this practice. To use our hands to listen to both our bodies and our emotions. To soften our muscles, and make us more flexible in every sense. To be fully present, to detect worry and anger so we can let them go, to connect with gratitude and compassion. In a few words, to literally embody the precepts.

Every Sunday, I organize a Reiki circle with the lovely Andrea Kartika Deierlein from Thrive Reiki (in my community, Reiki circles are the new Sunday brunch). Before we admit people in the Zoom Room, we spend a few minutes chatting about the day’s theme or meditation.
Last Sunday, we were talking about how we can’t make plans for the future. This is hard on us: we both have family members in Europe, and we used to look forward to those visits.
It made me think about how I am pretty much a “looking-forward” kind of person. Looking forward to the day I would graduate and start working encouraged me to push through years of boredom at university. When I worked full time, looking forward to a Reiki retreat or a vacation allowed me to get through long days of insane stress.
Looking forward to meeting someone, got me through some terrible dates (every New Yorker goes through these—it’s like a rite of passage to test your grit.)
In hindsight, however, I realize that—on many occasions—the “looking forward” also made me stay in situations that were not worth it: toxic relationships, jobs with poor boundaries, etc. I tend to live in the future instead of the now, and that sometimes limits my ability to make changes that would allow me to live the present with more ease.
Of course, I am looking forward to this pandemic madness to end, loosen up, or whatever term you would like to use. But, given the current uncertainty, it’s probably the first time in my life I have no plans, nothing to look forward to or, should I say, nothing to escape too. I am just drifting.
And although this lack of things to look forward to in the future feels horribly depressing at times, it’s also very rich in gifts. I am more present when I eat and enjoy food a lot more (and I am an average cook at best). Washing the dishes feels like a meditation. I even discovered that I walk with most of my weight on the right side (why?!?), which is probably the reason I struggle with my left side in martial arts. Weird insightful experiences that only happen in emptiness.
As I see the world opening up from my computer (we in New York seems to be trapped in this lockdown forever) I wonder if, as soon as I can book a ticket, this ability will vanish, if I will trade the present once more for a future to look forward to or if I will find the right balance.
How are you dealing with the uncertainty? I would love to hear. You can reply to this email or DM through Facebook or Instagram.
Sending much love,
Nathalie

It feels like day 813205 of the lock-down. It's rainy. I am not feeling that great. And that's OK.
Sometimes, I try to justify all of this madness by thinking of all the good things coming out of it. I am practicing a lot. Becoming closer to friends and family who live far away. And—because of my niece's obsession with a psycho-socialite that teaches killer workouts—I may even end up with a soupcon of abs for the first time in my life.
But staying positive all the time can feel exhausting. On those moments, I need to let go. To understand shit happens, and there is no need to justify it. To eat pancakes for dinner. To take a day off Zoom and listen to my worries, my anger, my grief. To hold space for these feelings that are often overwhelming, often enlightening.
Because balance is only found in that tiny space that lies between our joy and our grief, our hopes and fears, our OKness, and not OKness. Without darkness, there is no light.
Love,
Nathalie

[Excerpt from the upcoming Reiki Healing Handbook].

Imagine the universe and everything in it: humans, animals, plants, mountains, and even stones. All of it has energy—yes, even the stone! Although invisible, this energy is unlimited and all-encompassing. While science is now demonstrating the impact of energy in our lives, ancient cultures have been aware of this fact for centuries. Known as Chi in China, Ki in Japan, and Prana in India, energy has been and continues to be the basis for many healing modalities.

How does energy healing work? Well, imagine your energy flow is a river. When it flows freely, you function optimally—feeling good, energized, and inspired. However, life’s challenges can affect your energy. Worries, fears, anger, and trauma pile up like stones and mud in the river, obstructing its flow until only a trickle is left. You may feel drained, disconnected, and can experience physical pain or disease. So, how can you get your energy flowing freely again and, by doing so, jumpstart your body’s innate ability to heal? Meet Reiki, a century-old Japanese practice that combines hands-on-healing and mindfulness techniques to restore the flow of energy, promoting balance and well-being at all levels: body, mind, and spirit.

The word “reiki” can be translated from the Japanese as “universal life force” or “spiritual energy.” By connecting more consciously with this energy, or Ki, through the Reiki system of healing, you can feel more relaxed, centered, and improve your overall health. You may also start an incredible journey of self-discovery, self-forgiveness, and self-acceptance—letting go of anger and worry to discover a life filled with gratitude and a sense of purpose.

Originally developed as a spiritual practice by its founder, Mikao Usui, Reiki has become one of the most popular energy healing modalities in the West because it’s simple, effective, and can be performed by anyone. It is a nonreligious practice. It is also non-invasive, which means it won’t interact with medications. Reiki practice consists of five elements:

1. Precepts—To meditate upon or use as guidelines for the other aspects of the practice.

2. Hands-on Healing—The placement of hands on key points of the body to balance energy.

3. Meditations—To center the mind and build energy.

4. Mantras and Symbols—To connect to more specific types of energies or achieve a determinate state of mind.

5. Attunement—To significantly increase the flow of energy. It is also a way for a Reiki master to transfer wisdom to a student.

All of these—except the attunement, which is performed by a Reiki master—can be practiced on the self. Self-practice is, in fact, the cornerstone of Reiki practice. Because when we heal ourselves, we heal the world. This may sound like a bit much. But think about it: When you feel calm and happy, every person around you benefits from it. You also make more conscious choices at work or as a consumer, thereby helping the whole planet. And it all starts with a simple practice: Reiki.

The other day, while I was offering a session to a client, an image came into my mind of all the people who would benefit from this woman’s return to health. Of how much kindness, love, and support, she would spread in the future.

I started applying that to my own sittings: feeling the connection with everyone and how my well-being was also their well-being. It made my practice so much richer. 

Often, when we practice meditation or an energy healing modality, we focus on our problems, on what needs to change or improve. We hold this so tight in our awareness that releasing it becomes a Herculean (if not impossible) task. We get frustrated, and may even leave our practice aside for lack of results.

Or we may feel selfish for investing time to work on ourselves instead of helping others or doing what society labels as productive. We forget that “if we don’t have tea, we can’t offer tea.”

So, for once, let’s focus on that tiny seed of joy we all carry inside—yes, it’s there, even if it may take us some time to find it. Let’s feed its growth with the warmth of our attention, allowing it to spread throughout our whole body and overflow into our surroundings, touching the lives of our loved ones and everyone with whom we come in contact.

How would that transform your practice? What ripple effect can you envision? I would love to hear about your experience.

Love and light,

Nathalie

The Japanese deity Fudo Myoo is associated both with Iaido and Reiki practice.

As I prepare for my next Iaido test—a Japanese martial art based on the art of drawing the sword—part of the process is to par down my appearance. Colorful nail polish will give way to nude. Jewelry will be gone—all of it. My favorite berry lip color will give way to plain lip balm.

That’s because when you do an embu—performing a series of Iaido katas in front of others—the only thing that’s supposed to shine is your sword.

In Japanese martial arts, the sword represents wisdom.

As a practitioner of Iaido, you must let go of distractions and adornments, and just allow whatever wisdom you’ve acquired to shine through. Humbly yet without shame.

This week, it hit me: the same can apply to Reiki.

We may love crystals, rituals, and intentions. They may help us find ourselves in the “right space.” But in time, we need to let go not only of anger and worry, but also of spiritual crutches, adornments, and distractions.

In our Reiki practice—as in Iaido—the only thing that should shine is the bright light of our presence. Humbly yet without shame.

The other day I was reading in The New York Times an article about the impact of positive people. It mentioned that in Japan, women thrive until very old age because most are part of a "Moai,” a social group that forms to provide different kinds of support: social, financial, health, or spiritual.

And it made me think about us, New Yorkers.

Many of us have groups of close friends with whom we eat, party, share adventures, process our breakups, etc. But in a city where we all pride of being independent and fierce, how much emotional and spiritual support do we really take in? How open are we to being vulnerable?

The other day I was offering a Reiki session to one of my clients. It took her a long time to open up and receive energetic support. Once she did, she was able to let go of stress, relax and truly benefit from the session. But her first reaction was resistance.

Receiving support has never been my forte either. I still have to force myself to ask for help. But every time I do it, I’m like, “duh! It was so easy with someone else's help!”

One of the end goals of Reiki practice is to let go of anger and worry. In my experience, it is a lot easier to let go of something when you have the right kind of support. We worry less when we know someone has our back. Anger doesn't have such a firm hold on us when we feel loved, energized and accepted.

No matter how strong or independent, we all are interconnected. Which means that whenever life throws us down, there is a giant energetic net in which we can fall back. It just takes a little of awareness to feel it.
 

My practice to feel more connected to others:

I add a loving-kindness meditation twist to the Reiki meditation Joshin Kokyu Ho.

1. Sit with your back straight. Close your eyes and place your hands in your lap, palms facing upward.
2. Inhale and feel the energy coming in through the nose and moving down to the Hara (an energetic point 2 inches below your belly button.)
3. Pause, feeling the energy filling your entire body.
4. Exhale, expanding the energy out of the body through every pore,  creating a big bright sphere of light that surrounds you.
5. Repeat steps 3 to 5 as many times as you wish.
6. When you have this routine down, bring someone you love into your bubble. It can be a pet or a friend/family member that brings you joy. Notice the difference in your body, especially your heart area.
7. After a few breaths, let go of that pet/person and imagine your sphere getting bigger: filling the room, covering the neighborhood, the city, even the whole world. Notice any change in your feelings or body.
8. After a few minutes stop the visualization, and sit for a moment in the space you created breathing normally.