Oliver Drewes is a Reiki master practitioner based in Germany. He came across the practice in 2010, completed the first and second level of Western-style Reiki training in 2011. In 2015-2016, Oliver learned the first three levels of training of the Gendai Reiki Hō school. In autumn 2016, he completed the master and teacher training directly with the founder of the Gendai-Reiki method, Hiroshi Doi Sensei, in Japan, after repeating the previous levels of training.

Oliver is also the founder of Holistika, a book imprint that has published the work of Doi Sensei (for German-speaking countries), Frank Glatzer, and Frans Stiene's translation of The Inner Heart of Reiki (he was also the actual translator).

In addition to teaching the Reiki system, Oliver has given lectures at the ProReiki Regional Group Cologne, the professional association ProReiki, and the Reiki Convention.

DIVE INTO REIKI: Hi, Oliver. Thank you so much for accepting my invitation. I like to start every interview with the same question: how did you come in contact with Reiki practice? 
OLIVER DREWES: My Reiki way began when I was very young. Sev brought me to Reiki [the first one was the] funeral of my great grandfather. At this time, I had a very special experience. I thought that I had seen him. So we all had been at the cemetery. It was on [a] hill. The sun was very strong, and suddenly I had the impression that I had seen him and that he had seen me. And at that moment, I lost consciousness, and my father saved me from falling. And all the years after, I had the impression that I had seen him. I never said I had seen him. I didn't want to be a liar. I was never sure whether I really saw him or not. This occupied my mind for more than 25 years.
In 2006, my parents gave me a phone call that there was a lady on the television. She brought people back to former lives as well as to experiences in their childhood. And they told me this could be a chance to review what I experienced. So I came in contact with this lady, and finally, she invited me to train. To my surprise, I got it as a gift from her… it was the training to become a practitioner in regression therapy. It was a nice experience. I could bring people back to their former lives, but I had not been able to do this myself. I was not able to give up control. I needed to be more relaxed. 
I decided to go to a healing practitioner school in Germany to learn more about relaxation methods. There was an advertisement for Reiki. I was very interested—healing with hands sounded interesting. I went to the south of Germany because there was one seminar just one or two weeks later. When I'm interested in something, I'm not looking when it's [happening] nearby. I just want to do it right now. So, I went to the South of Germany [for] my first Reiki seminar. I'm still in contact with and friends with that teacher, but it was not the purest Reiki I could experience. It was a mixture of Reiki and healing with gemstones. I was more interested in the pure Reiki. I changed teachers, and then I found myself in a seminar, which was a mixture of Reiki and healing with angels. It was not the pure Reiki I was looking for either. I decided to continue my Reiki way when the right time came, and I would have found the right teacher. 
In 2013, I went to London to the Arthur Findlay College because I wanted to know more about mediumship and the vision I had of my great grandfather. We learned a special scanning method. I could see people's problems and pains. It was very extraordinary. I went to the tutor and said, "Oh, I have seen…." He said, "No, stop, Oliver. Just get used to it. You have not seen; you have been shown. That's a big difference, but anyway, it's a gift, and you should think about what to do with it." And then I said, "Well, if this is a gift, maybe it's the right time to continue my way with and dedicate myself to healing again." 
[Back] in Germany, I've been looking for a new teacher in stool and found one in Cologne, not far from where I live. Then everything started flowing. After that, I got the chance to go to Japan to learn from Hiroshi Doi [founder of Gendai Reiki.] I had the chance to translate his books. And later, I had the chance to be a speaker at different events and even got to know Frans Stiene personally. With him, I had the chance to organize trips to Japan. 
My mother later told me that she had an experience that her grandfather—that was my great-grandfather—saved our family from an accident. She saw him making signs not to do certain things. And Her telling me that made it easier for me to accept my experience than any regression therapy or other [modalities.] I didn't need anymore. It was clear to me that these things could happen. But, anyway, it brought me to Reiki and where I am today.

Oliver Drewes next to Mikao Usui’s memorial stone.

DIR: You studied with eight Reiki teachers. Do you advise people to study with different masters, and what did you gain from doing so?
OD: As I mentioned first, I was looking for pure Reiki. It was fantastic to combine healing with stones. I think if someone is doing this during a treatment, it's great. But if you tell students about this, it's like giving the association that Reiki power wouldn't be strong enough and requires healing stones. The same with angels. That was not my way. So there, I already needed to go to a different teacher. Learning Gendai Reiki [gave me] more of the Japanese perspective. The style that I'm teaching and that I learned from Hiroshi Doi is nice. It's a combination of the Western and the traditional Reiki. [It includes] working with chakras, a great tool, but it's not the [authentic] Japanese way. Chakras come from India.
I wanted to go even [deeper] into the roots [of the Reiki system]. I found Frans Stiene. I really appreciate his style and his teachings. He is learning from priests in Japan to see [the practice] from a different [perspective]. You don't need to be a Buddhist or know very much about esoteric Buddhism; you can have any religion [to practice Reiki]—that's clear. But [understanding Buddhism] gives a greater understanding. As we didn't [grow up with] Japanese culture, some things have to be explained to understand what was meant by [the teachings.] 
This is how I came to the first four teachers. Then I said, "Okay, let's have a look at other styles." I wanted to have a look at Jikiden Reiki. So I taught a friend of mine Gendai Reiki Ho, and I studied Jikiden from him. There are many similarities, but some things are quite different. And then, I had the chance to see the Reiki style of Chris Marsh [a renowned UK Reiki master who passed away at the beginning of 2021]. I took every opportunity to [study] different teachers and different styles. I think this is okay. Some teachers are very strict and say, "If you learn from me, it's only me and my style." And maybe even, "My style is better, and don't look at others." But I mean, if you're going to school, you have a teacher for English, you have a teacher for mathematics, and a teacher for biology. You get knowledge from different teachers. Why not in Reiki? I mean, Reiki has the same origin. Every teacher has their own way. 
Hiroshi Doi, for example, compares Reiki with climbing Mount Fuji. You can go until the middle, and you decide just to be in the healthy soul. But you can continue and take the spiritual path. And when you do that, you may reach the top, Natsumi Ritsumei—a state of inner happiness and inner calmness. Every guide has his group to bring them to the top of Mount Fuji. And everyone has their way. Maybe one way is straighter; maybe the other has more views; maybe one is more exhausting, one is more relaxed, but all guides have different routes to go to the top of the mountain. It is the same with Reiki teachers. All are guides to bring their students to the top, bring them to a point to reach Natsumi Ritsumei [following] the way [that worked for them.]. There is no wrong way—they're all alternative ways [that come from] the same origin.

DIR: I love this POV beyond the metaphor. Sometimes in the Reiki community, we remain separate because we practice different styles instead of coming together to learn from each other. We should encourage the exchange between practitioners. 
OD: Yeah. I had a couple of times every month a meeting with that friend. Both of our students would come, and we had a Reiki exchange. Someone said to me, "I'm not very happy with the Jikiden [style]. I don't want to deal with that." And I said, "Sorry, this is my friend. We do this in cooperation. We want to make something clear: it's not one style against the other. We are doing this together. We are one Reiki family."
You can see Mikao Usui as the founder and then compare it with a big tree. He is the root. And then the tree has many branches, many leaves. It's not one against the other or one better than the other. And if there is a possibility for cooperation, I think this will offer students and participants a better understanding. It allows us to see some things from a different point of view.

DIR: You also mentioned traveling to Japan. When I traveled to Japan, I understood Reiki to a whole new level. You organize trips to Japan to follow Mikao Usui's path. Can you tell us how you came up with that idea? 
OD: [After] my first Reiki seminar, the teacher offered to choose between different raw quartz stones. That was a tradition in his style. I chose one, and it happened to be formed like a pyramid with three sides. But on one side, there was a little [defect]. And I said, "Why did I take this one?" I'm a perfectionist. And it could be so perfect if this [minor defect] wouldn't have been there. And then there was like a big voice saying, "Oliver, this stone is for you always to remember to take things as they are, and not as you want them to [be.]." I was surprised, [I kept] looking around [trying to find] who was speaking. It was an experience. At that time, I had dreams. One of those dreams was that I saw myself in Japan, organizing trips for people from all over the world. But the interesting thing was that they learned Reiki and had a seminar with a Western teacher. 
When I woke up, I said, "Well, that's strange. If ever in the future, I would bring people to Japan to learn Reiki there, the country of origin, of course, I would look for a Japanese teacher. Why should I have a Westerner teaching Western people in Japan? That does not make sense! So, 15 years later, more or less, when I was there with Frans [Stiene, the co-founder of the International House of Reiki], I said, "Oh, stop! That's exactly what I was dreaming. It came true." I was not thinking of this [dream] all the time. It was not a [goal] for me, but when I found myself [in Japan] with the group, I said, "Oh, okay! I remember that dream. That's interesting."
[The idea for the trip] came [about] first after having been in the class of Hiroshi Doi in 2016. I wanted to organize trips to Japan, including a seminar with Doi. I wanted to translate from English into German for my group. But it happened that the schedule from November was changed to September because there was an unveiling ceremony of a special Memorial stone that Hiroshi Doi had put in the birth town of Mikao Usui, and all the plans changed. I couldn't go in November. The American group was going in September. Later, Hiroshi Doi said, "Oh, I don't know if I would do this the next year. I was born in 1935. I'm quite advanced in age. I'm not sure." I looked for alternatives. I [talked to] Frans, and we said, "Let's do this together." 
I had everything organized. I already had organized trips to India, Sri Lanka, and Bali for people interested in spirituality. I already had some experience. Many of [Frans'] students joined us in 2019. We had a wonderful group with people from New Zealand, Australia, the UK, Italy, and [many] from the US. It was an experience to be in the country of origin for them, to practice Reiki there. I think it's a really different energy, especially when you find yourself on Mount Karama or even Mount Hiei, which is the place of origin of Buddhism in Japan. You can feel it there on the mountain with every step you make, every breath you take. There is so much of that original energy. It makes a difference. 
The other aspect was that it was so nice that people from all over the world [formed] one group. We're part of the community, not only in our local town, in our country or continent, but everywhere. Friendships [were] started between the seminar takers and [with the] Japanese Reiki master that I presented in the meeting with Hiroshi Doi. It was so great for me as an organizer to see that. 
I think doing this as a kind of pilgrimage—to see where Mikao Usui went to school, where he lived, the history of this town, and how everything developed gives you a better understanding [of the Reiki system.] You [get] the picture. Later, [when you teach a] class, you can show the students, "Look, this is where [Miako Usui] went to school. This is where his grandfather and uncle had the sake manufacturing." You can teach from your own experience. I think this makes a difference. Normally as a teacher, depending on where you learn, you teach what you have learned. So, it's an indirect knowledge [based on] the experience someone else [had]. But if you're in Japan experiencing this yourself, meditating on Mount Kurama and feeling that energy, it's your direct experience that you're teaching.

DIR: Direct experience can mean going to Japan or doing the work where you live: practicing or reading books. However, I have to say, there is something exceptional about being in Japan. For me, it was understanding the power of the simplicity of the Reiki system versus complicating it. When you sit in meditation in Japan, you feel that it is perfect as conceived with your whole body, mind, and soul. 
You also had a great story from one of your trips to Japan about how, as practitioners, we think the grass is always greener in other countries, especially when it comes to Reiki in healthcare. 
OD: Yeah. People from my group from the US [met] a Japanese Reiki master that I presented, and they said, "Ah, it's so different here in Japan. Reiki is so well accepted, and you're doing this in every hospital. It's so different." And the [Japanese said,] "That's not really the case. We are fighting for acceptance. It's not in every hospital, as is the case in Germany. There they do this in every hospital, and it's so well accepted." I said, "Well, no, not really. There are some hospitals [offering] Reiki, but it's not common. It's not in every hospital, and it's not accepted everywhere. It's more and more popular, but we in Germany read that is the case in the US, that we'll have so many hospitals working with Reiki and it's so well accepted." So, each of us believed that [things were better] in another country. 
It's a great vision for the future: that all over the world, [Reiki] is much more accepted and gets [to be a] standards therapy in hospitals. But at the moment, we had to experience that it was more a dream than a reality.

DIR: What would be your advice on communicating about the Reiki system to be more accepted in hospitals or community centers in our countries.
OD: There is a teaching in Gendai [Reiki] from Hiroshi Doi: focus on Reiki, be aware of that energy, be with it, but do the best you can and leave the rest to the universe. And I think at the same, we can, of course, have the [goal] to have it more accepted in hospitals; we can talk about this with our friends, with our relatives, we don't have to hide… but we cannot force it. It will come with time. So I think there are some lessons from the universe, [and one of them] is patience. We just need to be patient. I think in the next years and decades, [Reiki] will develop. 
What we can do [meanwhile] is to come to the core of Reiki. I mean, hands-on healing is great. A treatment is fantastic, but for me, the core is the Precepts [or Principles]. If you focus on that, if you integrate this into your daily life—not to be angry, not to worry, and to be thankful—you attract things, that's [the] secret. 
Normally you get something and, after [you] receive it, you are thankful. But the secret thing is, first of all, being thankful [beforehand]. And then, with the law of resonance, you attract exactly this into your life. So be aware of your frequency, be aware of your thoughts, because you're attracting exactly more of that. 
If everyone dedicates more [attention] to the precepts, sharing this knowledge, and integrating them into their lives, we automatically have a different understanding and communication with each other. And finally, even how we treat our environment, our planet, the respect between others and all beings. I think that makes a difference. We are a bit like a light in the darkness if we are caring for Reiki. The people who never had any experience [with it] see us [and ask,] "Why are you behaving like this? What are the things you are convinced of?" We can just be an example and then [share with] other people what our understanding is. 

DIR: I think it is so important what you mentioned about using the Reiki precepts as awareness tools for what's going on with yourself versus following them like if they were commandments. Thank you for sharing that. It's an important insight to help us integrate Reiki into our daily life. And talking about this, what is a gift Reiki has brought into your life? 
OD: Reiki really is a gift. I think it's so nice to work with it. It's so nice to teach this to other people and see what a difference it makes in their lives. They tell me about their experiences with family with their health; this is such nice feedback. 

DIR: You learned many modalities and are a medium. Why did you decide to stick to traditional Reiki when it comes to teaching? 
OD: I think [the modalities and mediumship] are personal experiences. So, when I'm teaching, for example, Gendai Reiki, then I'm teaching just Gendai Reiki. And I tell people there are other teachers, and they have different points of view. But at that moment, I'm focusing on [Gendai's] teaching to give this style's pure content. If I'm teaching what I've learned from Frans—he works from the hara, less with chakras—then it's different teaching. Of course, I can show them that I learned from other teachers with different points of view, but I always tell them this is the pure teaching. If you are teaching this style or that style, keep each clean, don't mix them.
Of course, everybody is free to create new styles. But I think if you just keep it clean, then it can survive in this original nature. If everybody means to create something new just for having his name or his style, it's possibly more a speck of the ego and not the [pure motivation to share Reiki.

DIR: The ego part is key, right? We may have a spiritual practice, but It doesn't mean our ego is always under control. 
OD: I think too that people [should not] expect anything. If they heard that some people had some sensations or visions during the attunement, they shouldn't be disappointed when they did not have them. They should come without any expectation. And then it's even much more worth it if something happens or they experienced something. And I think it's the same with Reiki. There are people who are [innately] connected to the spiritual world. [During] a treatment, [their] hand is attracted to where it is required. Others might hear like a voice saying, "Well, look for the knee as well or care for the shoulder." Every person is different, and every treatment is different. It's not that you need to be a medium or that you need to work with mediumship [to have intuition]. It's independent of Reiki. You can have it, it's an advantage, but it's not a disadvantage if you don't have it. And many things develop in time. The more you're doing Reiki, the more treatments you give, the more self-treatments you have, you're more in that energy, the more things change and develop you as a person and advance that whole thing.

DIR: I think you said two essential things. One is expectations getting in the way of experiencing the practice. And the other thing is that there is one practice, but we all will express it differently. How do you try to control your expectations from the practice or life in general?
OD: Sometimes you tell the students, "You have an intention, there's something that you would like to reach with Reiki, but you don't need to focus so much on it." In Japanese, it's the "nen," the will to do something. On one side, you have an intention to do something; on the other side, you should do this without any intention. So sometimes it's difficult to understand. So I think it's important to have a [goal], to say, "I want to reach this for my clients," but then not to focus so much on it. So just let the Reiki energy flow and work. Once the [goal] is defined, it's good. But thinking all the time about the [goal] is not that good and may distract you from just being a channel and letting Reiki flow. You are not the one to do something. You're just one to channel the energy. And in the end, it's the person who heals himself. We're just creating room for the Reiki energy to work and where all of this can happen, but we are not responsible for its success.

DIR: I love what you say because I think most of us fall into two extremes: we want to control the outcome too much, or we're unaccountable. It's a balance of aiming in the right direction and then letting go. Like archery in a way: you aim and then let that arrow go and do its work. But that is something that takes a lot of practice. 
OD: I think an important of life is not to give up. So if you have had [Reiki 1 Level training], just continue; read your manual again, practice, practice, practice, and don't stop practicing. You have to go on with that to be in it. I think that's a challenge for some people. In these times, many people have a seminar here, a seminar there. Want to have more knowledge from this, from that. There are so many different aspects that you can learn, but if you [need to] focus and keep practicing. Don't stop practicing. Integrate this in your life. I think this is the key to reaching something in the end.

DIR: Yes, we need to imprint that in our minds: do not give up, keep practicing. Changing tracks, you are also a publisher of books about spirituality. A lot of people want to write their own Reiki books. Do you have any advice for them? 
OD: Well, the whole publishing world changed a lot in the last ten, 15 years. I have two publishing houses at the moment. The first I started in 2002…. And then I had to launch the second editorial or publishing house because the [readership] was different. The first one was about keeping animals and pets in your house. And the other one was about spirituality. Two different kinds of readers, so I decided to have two different publishing houses. [I've heard] from colleagues that have been writing Reiki books successfully in the past. Ten years ago, they wrote a book, and if it was successful, they sold twenty to thirty thousand [books.} Then they had a second, third, and up to eight different editions. 
It's quite different today. Even the most successful authors of Reiki books—many of them I know personally—are happy to reach a quantity of maybe 500 books in the first year. These are not the numbers that we were used to in the past. It's is a challenge if you are printing something, not the book on-demand [model]. Book on-demand is nice if you want to have something saying, "I have written a book." You can never get it to the wholesale markets or the shops because you have to discount. And this discount is so big that in the end, the printing costs are higher than the discount you give. So, it's absolutely impossible to work professionally with a book on demands—you can just have this as a hobby. You can have it as personal satisfaction, the fact sheet, but you can't really sell quantity and cover your costs. 
If you do it the professional way, that means you need to print books. To print means quantity. So you have the printing machines running, and that's the most expensive thing. If you print 2000 copies or 3000 copies, that does not make [much difference in the] price. Just to keep the machine running, that's the main cost. If you divide the total cost by the quantity you have made, the more books printed, the more attractive the price. In my experience, I need to print at least two to three thousand books to have a price that's good enough to [sell] wholesale and to book shops. But, if you are just selling quantities of 500 [books per year], you need six years to sell them all. You need to store them in a warehouse. 
Sometimes with other [kind of] books, you're more successful. You have higher quantities. But Reiki [has become] especially difficult. Just this year, I've been speaking with many bookshops and [asking them why they don't] have one Reiki book on the shelves. Why is that? They said, "Well, it's not popular. At the moment, we sell books about yoga, yoga Nidra, yin yoga, but Reiki is a thing of the past. It's not popular. It's not fashionable." So for me, Reiki is not about popularity or fashion. It's still important these days, but that's the thinking of many shop owners. They just carry one trend and then another trend. Reiki is something they sold successfully in the past, but most of them are not interested in having this on their shelves [now]. So it's quite difficult to do Reiki book projects at this moment, at least from my experience here in the German market, which includes German-speaking countries like Austria and Switzerland. Maybe it might be different than other parts of the world.  

DIR: I appreciate your answer. I think it's also great to know that you can write your book, go ahead— just don't expect to become a bestseller or a millionaire!
I have one last question. I ask everyone I interview the following, "What is your biggest Reiki 'oops'?" 
OD: Yes, there is one story that I would like to share. It's something I tell my students in class—it's nothing I must be ashamed of. Of course, it's a mistake, but I think a mistake is just a bad word for an experience. I think as humans, we're making experiences and not mistakes. And from that, we can learn, and others have the chance to learn. 
I was a Reiki Level 2 student, and we were asked to practice distance healing. We found ourselves in a room with ten people, five were giving distance healing, and five were receiving. I had to work with a gentleman named Peter from Cologne, and he was sitting on his chair about ten meters away. So I started by being aware of being connected with Reiki, then gave this treatment to Peter, starting with his head and letting Reiki flow. Then I thought, "Oh, that's a nice lady on my side. She's attractive." I was single at that time. "Oh, she has beautiful eyes. How would it be to be with that girl? We would both be Reiki practitioners, not just one part of a couple. We could share this. We could have a nice walk. How would it feel to hold her hand." And then I went, "What are you doing? You were asked to give distant healing and not to care for the lady at your side!" I said, "Well, how much time did I lose with that? Okay. I won't do the upper part of Peter's body. I will just start with his legs." So, I gave this treatment to the legs, to the knees, and the feet. When Peter gave me feedback, he said, "I have to ask you something? I fell your presence on my head. It was so strong, but what happened then? It's like, Oliver left the room; there is nobody there anymore. Hello, Oliver, where are you? Nothing. And then you continue with next with my legs. In the meantime, what did you do? Where were you? I said, "Peter, first, congratulations, you are able to feel the Reiki energy. What happened was that I was not focused. I was thinking more about the lady at my side than giving you a treatment. I'm very sorry. Let's see this as a lesson!"
When I'm telling this [story] to my students, I say there are five different things we can learn from this. The first thing is Reiki energy exists. The second is you can feel Reiki energy. The third is you need to be focused when giving Reiki. So when you give Reiki, just give Reiki, don't think about what to cook in the evening, what to buy tomorrow. Be in the moment, be in the now. The fourth thing is to be aware that focusing matters, that it makes a difference. And the last thing to be aware is that skilled clients could read us.

DIR: I love that story. As you said, it gives you so much teaching material! Thank you for sharing that, Oliver. 
OD: You're welcome.

DIR: I want to thank you for your time for your kindness. This interview is so filled with wisdom, and also I love how organized your mind is compared to mine. I appreciate how articulate and clear your answers were. Thank you so much.
OD: Well, thank you very much for inviting me!

Drawing inspired by Oliver Drewes (© nathalie jaspar)

DIVE INTO REIKI: Welcome to Dive into Reiki podcast. Today I have a very special guest, very close to my heart: Frans Stiene. I'm your host, Nathalie. I've been practicing Reiki for 15 years. I'm the author of two books: the Reiki Healing Handbook and Reiki as A Spiritual Practice. Frans is my mentor, teacher, and dear friend. He's been a significant influence of global research into the system of Reiki since the early two-thousands. His practical understanding of the Japanese influences on the system has allowed students worldwide to connect deeply with this practice. And he's the co-founder of the International House of Reiki and the Shibumi international Reiki association with Browen Logan Stiene. He has co-written some of my favorite books: the critically acclaimed Reiki Source Book, The Japanese Art of Reiki, A-Z of Reiki Pocketbook, and Your Reiki Treatment. And two very, very special books written from his practice, The Inner Hear of Reiki and Reiki Insights. But most of all, he's a fantastic human being. What I love about Frans is that he really embodies the practice 24/7 in a very joyful downward way. If you go to a class with Frans, be prepared to laugh, cry, hug. It's freaking amazing. So Frans, welcome. How are you?

FRANS STIENE: Good morning. I'm doing well. Thank you, Nathalie. Good to be here and good to be talking to you. It's exciting. I'm ready.

DIR: I have to say that [the first few years] I didn't understand Reiki practice very much. I loved it. I was very attracted to it, but it wasn't until I read your book The Japanese Art of Reiki that I was like, "Oh, that's what I was feeling. That makes sense." I got it. I think I'm still practicing Reiki because of your books and then your classes and retreats. So, thank you so much for joining us today. I'm excited because we're going to go through your journey. Still, we're going to be zero in on Reiju, also called initiations or attunements. I think you have a genuine understanding to share with everyone in the Reiki community. But let's start with the beginning. You were a party boy, and suddenly you came in contact with Reiki. Can you give me a little bit of your origin story?
FS: Yes. I was a big party person. I love dancing. I still love dancing, but I don't do it that often anymore. I suffered from a lower back problem, and I moved from Holland to India. I lived there for two years. And then I came in contact in the Himalayas with a lady who was a healer. She did something [to] me that triggered for me a really big opening and awareness [and got rid of the back pain.] I started to buy books on all sorts of spiritual practices. That was highly unusual for me! And one of them was about the system of Reiki, and I thought, "Well, that sounds interesting!" In Katmandu, Nepal, I studied Reiki 1, 2, and 3, and then for a year with Bronwen (Logan Stiene), I had a Reiki center in Darjeeling.

DIR: And how did you go from studying Reiki to teaching it? And I seem to remember you had a story that one day someone approached you like, "Hi, do you know someone teaching Reiki?" How do you feel confident enough to teach? What made you say like, "Sure, I can teach this!"
FS: Yeah, it was bizarre. We just had done our first Reiki 3 class. I've done many because I think learning never stops. This was in Katmandu. We were standing in front of Pilgrims, a really famous book store in Katmandu, just after we had done Reiki three, a training, which actually, at that time, was terrible. It was the attunement, and then you got a copy of a book, of course, and then, "Bye, see you later! Work it out yourself!" And this couple comes towards us. And, I mean, literally, in that area of Katmandu, there were thousands of tourists. For whatever reason, they picked us out and said, "Excuse me, do you know any Reiki teachers around here?" And we go, "Eh…Well, we just did a Reiki teacher class, but we have no idea. But go inside [the book shop] there is a notice board; there must be some people teaching Reiki. Then we went like, "Well, this is bizarre. How is this possible that out of all these foreigners walking around here and standing here, they picked us out? This is a sign." So we followed them back in and said, "If you give us a week, we will prepare a class. We will teach you for free, and you can become our first students." And that was it!

DIR: OMG. I would love for you to go from that moment, that first training, to the style you train now? How has it changed over the years?
FS: Well, the way I was taught first was very externalized. Everything was seen as something outside of yourself, you know? When I lived in Darjeeling for a year, I also communicated with Tibetan Buddhist teachers and practitioners. There is a very big community in Darjeeling. They were really pointing towards the inside. I started to have certain experiences, and some of these experiences I could not understand. So I went to a Tibetan practitioner. I said, "Can I explain this to you?" And he said, "Yes, OK. This is really what we're looking for in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition when you are deepening your practice. What are you practicing? Are you practicing Buddhism?" I went like, "I don't know!"
I was wondering what was I really practicing? And so, I went in 2001 for the first time to Japan; I've been quite a few times. Since 2012, I've trained with a Japanese priest. And that, for me, has changed a lot. Already, prior to that, really developing myself looking at the Japanese ideas of internalizing spiritual practice. Seeing where Mikao Usui's teachings came from. What was he practicing? When we look at these teachings of Mikao Usui—the precepts, meditation, hands-on healing, symbols and mantras, and Reiju, nowadays called the attunement or initiation—we can see that he borrowed from Japanese esoteric teachings, like Shugendo, Mikkyo, Shinto, Zen, etcetera, to create the system we practice now. So It has changed a lot for me.

DIR: I love what you're saying: going from external to internal. Some people have a lot of resistance because it's almost questioning our capacity as simple humans with issues to offer a space of healing. How can I be good enough to offer all of this from inside myself versus just being a vessel? What kind of advice will you give someone who thinks that?
FS: I think we're so focused on everything that's outside of ourselves. Also, I think it's quite challenging to go within for a lot of people. You know, if you think about Mikao Usui's teachings, and we look at the precepts, for example, they are in Japanese, "Do not anger, do not worry," where do we store this trauma of anger and worry and fear? Inside the body. Not somewhere outside, over there, but inside the body. And therefore, even when we say we are a channel, we have to be a clear channel. If I have a straw and if that's the channel, then the straw needs to have no hole, no kink, no knot; else, the channel cannot be a good channel. Even if we see it outside ourselves and think that we are a channel, we still have to purify it. And we have to go within because that's where we store our anger and worry and fear. But it's also challenging. I think a lot of people find it very difficult to face their fears and worry, and anxiety. This is why I think a lot of modern healing practices have become very externalized.

DIR: That makes complete sense. Obviously, the beginning was centered on hands-on healing. How has it evolved? What is your practice today, and how often do you change it?
FS: For me, hands-on healing, of course, is a birthright. You know, you see it's snowing [here in Holland] today. You see kids falling, and straight away, they put their hands on their knees, or mom and dad run over and put their hands on their knees. It's a birthright. It doesn't mean they all have been practicing the system of Reiki, but it is an innate ability. However, of course, we can do hands-on healing with anger, with worry, with fear, with not being grateful, not being true to our way and our being, and not being compassionate. And this sounds very simple, but actually, it's really, really deep. So if we can do hands-on healing in that space of true compassion—what is true compassion, no attachment, completely open emptiness, non-Duality, etc.—then, of course, hands-on healing would be something quite different. So for me, I see hands-on-healing as a byproduct of your spiritual practice.

DIR: For me, it takes a lifetime to get there, right? I also think sometimes we see hands-on healing like, "Oh, want to relieve the pain in my knee," or, "It didn't work because he didn't take away my headache." We forget that we are feeling calmer and happier. And that is a lot more important. So sometimes we go for this healing and fixing versus just the exploration of the self.
FS: Yeah. Mikao Usui pointed it out so clearly in the Precepts— it's all about the mind, the mind of no anger, the mind of no worry, the mind of being grateful, the mind of being true to your way and your being, the mind of being compassionate. As we all know, man, that is difficult. Shit, that is so difficult, right? Particularly at this time. So nowadays [we are into] instant classes, instant attunement/Reiju/initiation. And then we go like, "Oh yeah, but it's not working. I still feel angry. I still feel worried." Yeah, but have you sat on your butt to do your practice? Because that is where it takes place. This is, for me, so important. It's also why the Japanese way is essential if we want to become a better human being. What is a better human being? It's a human being full of compassion and kindness and love and openness.

 DIR: I was giving a podcast yesterday for martial arts talking about energy and breath. They were asking me like, "How can you feel the improvement in the breath? How can you become better in specific breathing?" I was like, "We don't have the idea of improvement in Reiki. We have the idea of going deeper and exploring." The host was looking at me like I am a madwoman, but I feel that is a significant shift in martial arts or Reiki. It's not really about fixing yourself. It's really about getting to know yourself or your true self.
So, if I could take a peek at Frans Stiene at home when no one is looking, what would I see you doing?
FS: [Laughs] Throwing snowballs!
DIR: Ha!
FS: For me at the moment, there are some very specific practices. I've been practicing with the specific instruction of my teacher in Japan, a priest, to gain of much deeper and direct experience of ultimately the Precepts. You know, the embodiment of the Precepts, embodiment of the Reiki 3 symbol and mantra, Great Bright Light, inner luminosity. And those for me are essential. So, it involves quite a lot of chanting, meditation practice, really learning to focus. I also think in our society, we are so unfocused! Why do we get angry? Why do we get worried? Because we get distracted by the past. We get distracted by the future. And we get distracted ultimately by the present moment. So the practice I'm doing is trying not to get distracted by past, present, future, which is really difficult. This is why I particularly have to practice till the end of my life because we have all a lot of shit.

 DIR: Yes. Welcome to being human. We have many times said that the core of the system is the Precepts, right? I think sometimes people see the Reiki system as very separate. They get their Reiki one and use the hands. Then they learn a symbol. It's hard to see the connection with the Precepts and with everything else. Can you elaborate on how the Precepts are the link that connects the whole system?
FS: Absolutely. For me, that's really the base. It's the foundation. I mean, you know, this idea comes to my mind that if we think [self-practice] doesn't matter, would it matter if I get hands-on healing from a junkie or the Dalai Lama? Of course, there will be a huge difference because the Dalai Lama is in this huge state of mind of Great Bright Light or kindness and compassion. And we all know that if someone is angry or depressed or worried and fearful that their body is [tense and constricted], their energy is like that. The mind is like that. So, therefore, of course, energy is not flowing. It's really simple, but it's so simple that often we don't see it because we like to make it complicated. But it's actually so simple: we [have to be] kind and compassionate—and I'm not talking about, "Oh, hi there" kind of kind, but true kindness, what is ultimately non-duality. Again, Mikao Usui is pointing that out within the mantras in Reiki 2 and Reiki 3 really, really clearly. And so that inner luminosity, your inner true self—what is that? That is the state of no anger, no worry, being grateful, being true to your way, and being compassionate. So the Precepts are an explanation of your true nature, of your true self, of that inner luminosity. And I think it's simplified too much, you know, we say, "Oh no, I'm never angry. I'm never worried. I'm compassionate." But if you are honest with yourself, then you realize that is not really the case.

 DIR: Also, there is no light without darkness.
FS: Absolutely.

DIR: What you're describing as called here in America spiritual bypassing. We are not in touch with the dark side of ourselves because it's uncomfortable. We don't want to be angry, but when we accept, it kind of washes away. If you run away from it, it becomes more insidious. I think it's lovely that Reiki gives you that platform to hold and be able to process those things.
FS: It's a little bit like this: if I would have worn this shirt a while and then wash it, of course, we see a lot of dirt coming off it. And we celebrate that because we know [that we will see] the purity of the jumper. But when that happens in our own practice, we go like, "Ooh, no, I don't want to touch it. Oh, I can see my anger, quick, let me go into Lalaland!" And therefore, meditation, mindfulness, yoga, Tai Chi, Qigong, the system of Reiki often has moved away and has become an escape instead of really dealing with your anger and worry and fear so that you can lay bare your innate compassion.

DIR: That is a big, big truth, and I think it's becoming even more so because we're teaching Reiki without any grounding techniques. Most of the training focuses on what we call the heavenly center, which is your connection to the source, to Lalaland, right? Because if you don't bring it into the body, if you don't embody it, it becomes spiritual bypassing because it's angels and happiness, and then you crash. You lose your keys, lose your job and become more emotional. So if someone feels a little bit emotional, "Lalaland-ish," and a little bit unstable after Reiki practice, what would you recommend?
FS: I was looking through the yoga sutras, and, again, even they're very clear: focus, don't get distracted by attachment, worries, fear, past, present, future. So, again, it's about being focused. Specifically, first of all, focus on the Hara, on your Dan Tien or the root and sacral chakras, for grounding and centering. Essentially in this time when there's so much stuff [in your head area], as you said, Heaven stuff, and we're not grounded. So we do this upside-down pyramid, and we go, "Weeee!" Therefore, we are so unstable. Therefore, we get quickly angry and worried, etc.

DIR: Yeah, no, I've noticed because some people are practitioners, and are offering many sessions, and then they are angry. And then they're like, "Why am I angry as a practitioner If I just study Reiki not to be angry?" It's a lack of grounding, right?
FS: It is. And this is why the essential elements are sitting on your butt and doing the meditation practice. But most of the time, we see the system of Reiki as, "Oh, you have the attunement or initiation, Reiju, or whatever you call it. You put your hands on someone, and we do hands-on healing on someone or ourselves. And most of the time, people go like this and fall asleep. In reality, they're just sleeping. They're not doing hands-on healing. And then we say, "Oh, the energy is doing it for me." We've become so superficial in it. Excuse me, but it's true. And it's really easy to check: if someone hits you on the head, do you get angry? Do you get worried? Do you get fearful? Are you reacting with compassion or not? I mean, it's a very easy checklist: the precepts, to know if and how you're doing what you practice.

DIR: The other day, I was in the subway, and we have many crazies. With the pandemic, I've become a little more nervous., This woman was screaming at me like 20 centimeters away. She had a mask that was falling, and she was screaming about love, but she was so angry. I could feel myself also getting angry. And then I got mad because I was angry. Because, yes, she was making me angry, but I had anger inside, to begin with. It was a nice check on my practice. I told myself, "I need to go and sit on my butt for a good while because I'm getting angry with this poor woman who's crazy!"
FS: This is it. This is a wonderful story. You know, if I have this cup with tea in it and someone knocks it, then tea comes out, not coffee, not Coca-Cola, nothing, you know, but tea comes. So if someone bumps me verbally or physically, what comes out? Anger or worry or love and compassion? If anger and worry come out, that means we have anger and worry inside of us. If love comes out, then it means we have love inside of us. And we can change that, you know? And so this is why we practice.

DIR: You have a very successful career. You traveled the world teaching. I wanted to ask you one question—and I'm asking this question to everyone. We always talk about growing as practitioners, but we seldom share our mistakes, our "Oops, what did I do?" I'd love for you to share one because I've learned my biggest lessons as a practitioner from my mistakes. I would love to hear yours.
FS: I think my whole career is one big mistake [laughs]. I think, you know, this is the problem… I think my biggest mistake is really that I often fall back on that ego thing. You know, the "me, poor me." "I, I, I." It's a very common thing for me. As you say, like anger, it's a really good tool to say, "Oh, Frans, you're getting distracted again with the "me" thing. There is a great called No Self, No Problem. Of course, there is a self, but if we have let go of the "I," the "me, me, me" thing, then we are OK. Again, it's in the Precepts: who gets angry? I get angry. Who gets worried? I get worried. No "I": no one home to get angry or worried. So yeah, my issue is sometimes I have very specific things that I find difficult to let go. But they are great learning tools for me as well. So, in a way, I don't see them as a mistake because when they happen, I realize, as you said, 'Oh, I need to sit more on my butt. I need to work on this." And so, therefore, they are great pointers for self-exploration.

DIR: You are a human and a Leo. So, the "I" thing is big for you! [Laughs]
FS: Meow!
DIR: Honestly, except for the photobombing every selfie taken on the street when you were in New York, I haven't seen you very much in the "I" space!
I wanted a little bit to zero in on attunements, especially with the pandemic. I've noticed that as practitioners, we don't have a deep understanding of what attunement is. For everybody, attunement, initiation, or Reiju are all the same thing—the ritual in which the teacher initiates students into Reiki practice. I've had people trying to sell me attunements for $40. I've had people calling me to get an attunement so they could sell remote Reiki sessions for a hundred dollars, but they wanted to pay me 30. And I've also had people saying like, of course, I can perform an attunement if I check my notes from three years ago.
This is not a judgment. That would have been my answer like three, four, five, six years ago. This is just the way we're training our community. Are we giving them all the information about attunements? There are very few practitioners with the depth you have because you've practiced probably like a million of them. I was very fortunate to get quite a few. Can you explain what a Reiju is? How would you define it?

FS: First, [let me explain something] because I think in the wider Reiki community, there is a misunderstanding about Reiju and attunement. They think it's two different things, but the word attunement doesn't exist in Japan. Neither the word initiation. These are English words. So in Japan, there is one word, which is Reiju. And Reiju has different rituals. They all do the same thing. Some are very simple. Some are very elaborate, and it would depend on the student and the teacher what kind of ritual you use. Some have no symbols and mantras. Some do have symbols and mantras. Again, that is not enough. Many years ago, one student said, "Frans, we can teach a monkey how to perform this ritual, but it doesn't mean they can perform a Reiju." So yeah, let's call it Reiju from now on, but remember: Reiju, attunement, and initiation—one and the same thing.
We often think it's just a physical ritual, but I can go outside here and teach this ritual to someone. They can do it in half an hour, right? It's not that difficult. That doesn't mean they can do Reiju. Traditionally Reiju is a spiritual blessing. If you translated it: spiritual blessings, a spiritual offering, spiritual giving-receiving. It means it's spiritual in nature, so if my mind is confused, full of anger, full of worry, full of fear, full of attachments. If my mind is not empty, right? Empty ness: no me, no you, completely wide open. If the physical ritual is not infused with this, it lacks the depth of it.
Traditionally [in Japan] where Reiju comes from, these rituals were only taught to people who became a priest or priestess. That means they already had a super, super long training. They were first a monk or a nun. Then they did the priest or priestess training. What was really, really intense, right? And only then were they taught these particular rituals because they knew it wasn't the physical ritual. It's your state of mind. And this is why the state of mind of Reiju you is the most important element. What is the state of mind? Emptiness, non-duality, and, ultimately, enlightenment. I've been very fortunate to have rituals like this being performed for myself by priests, priestesses. It was very, very different than anything you've ever "received."
For me, it's so potent, so clear that these rituals, their essence, are really how you've tapped into your inner luminosity. And not just a little bit. I know some people who say, "Oh, I'm one. I'm in this nondual space." Cut the crap. Really. Cut the crap. There is a Buddhist teacher who has a very easy test for you. I like him a lot. He's quite outspoken. He said, "If you keep talking about that you are in this oneness space, there is a very easy test: buy a candle, lit the candle, stick your hand in the flame and keep saying, I'm one with the flame. If you burn your hand, shut up and keep practicing." Because if you're one with the flame, fire cannot burn fire. It's very simple. But you know, we have these concepts, and we think so superficially about these. This is why we have to be brutally honest with ourselves and investigate and realize that the essence of these Reiju is ultimately non-duality, what means no giver, no receiver, nothing to give, just pure luminosity.

 DIR: I think it's interesting when you say no giver, no receiver, right? Often, when, as teachers, we perform Reiju, we feel we're enabling our students to connect more consciously with the ki. We're giving them the ability to channel Reiki. According to the lineage, the language changes. But you're talking that as a teacher, you're not a giver, and there is no receiver. So can you elaborate a little bit on that?
FS: For me? It's about realizing that you are Reiki. Mikao Usui again pointed out at this so wonderfully: that your essence is already Great Bright Light. He pointed this out in the Reiki 2 symbols and mantras and the Reiki 3 symbol and mantra. You are Kami [essence], you are Buddha. You are Great Bright Light. You are already inherently no anger, no worry, no fear, being grateful, being true to your way and your being, and being compassionate. But we've forgotten about this. We put all these layers over this beautiful, bright light. So Reiju is not that I give you light. I'm not giving you Reiki because you are Reiki already. Hopefully, during the Reiju, you can become aware that you are this luminosity already, maybe for a split second. This is why I like Mrs. Takata's translation: initiation. You will have maybe the initial experience that you are for a moment, maybe a split second, of, "Oh, here is my great bright light. Here is my no anger, no worry. Here is my compassion."
When we have that for an initial experience, we can use it as a seed, right, as a trace. Then we have to water that seed, of course. And it's very simple. Some people say, "Oh, but you'll only need one or two or five or four initiations depending on the lineage and tradition. And that's it." I don't believe in this. And it's very easy to test because the essence of the system of Reiki is the Precepts. If one initiation, Reiju, or attunement brings you into a full state of no more anger, no more worry, no more fear, etc.… Perfect! But we all know that even after 10 of those Reijus, that is definitely not the case. So it means one Reiju or one attunement, or four Reijus or four attunements are not enough.
You have to do it again and again. Again until one day, this initial experience is a full-blown experience. For the rest of your life, you're in this space of luminosity—no anger, no worry, and no fear. And even then, we have to receive more Reiju or attunements because even if I have a diamond and it's pure and clean, if I let it sit, it still attracts dust. So if I don't dust it, it becomes dusty. So again, we have to [keep practicing Reiju.] But nowadays, we are like, "No, only for only three!" And that's it for the rest of your life! Again, be honest with yourself and check for yourself. These four attunements or Reijus or initiation bring you into full space of no more anger, no more worry, no more fear, etc. Then we have to honestly say to ourselves, "No, that is not the case."

DIR: Every lineage has a very different approach. When we practice traditional Japanese style, we offer attunements in Reiki circles, which is frowned upon in some lineages. We all have different rules. But is there something you would recommend to anyone offering attunements, Western or traditional
FS: Well, again, it comes down to your own direct experience. To how deep have you laid bare your true self. That [is what] becomes essential. I often use a very simple explanation. It's a little bit like this. [Frans shows the light shining from his phone.] This is the great bright light. So if I do Reiju or even hands-healing on you and I come with my luminosity, I shine on you. Hopefully, you can find your luminosity. But if I am still in the dark, no light, because I haven't sat on my butt to do my practice, I still have a lot of anger and worry and fear, then I come to you and, of course, you might feel something. But you haven't had the possibility to find your light because my light is still covered with all this shit, right? True practice is that brightness is laid bare more and more and more and more and more. Then, of course, there is more possibility for you to find your luminosity. Sometimes we stick our luminosity in the furthest corner of our mind. So if only a weak light comes, that light is not reaching the light of the furthest corner of your mind. Does that make sense?
DIR: It makes total sense!
FS: The more I've laid bare my luminosity, my Great Bright Light, the more possibility there is for you [ to find yours during a Reiju.] But again, it always takes two to tango. So for you to "receive," [you need] to be empty, right? And this is, we often also don't know how to receive, because what does been empty mean? Empty of the self, empty of attachment, empty of worry, empty of fear, etc., etc.

DIR: Generally, I can see how sometimes when we have a very emotional or powerful Reiju, expectation can get in the way of a second one!
My next question is about Reijus related to upgrades. I want to have this podcast to present POV's and everybody will have a different POV on this. I don't want my next question to sound disrespectful to anyone. From the traditional Japanese POV, and yours specifically, what do you think of the concept of upgrades when it comes to the Reiki system?
FS: We only have to look at flower arrangement, Zen, in Japanese martial arts, all these Japanese traditions—they all talk about the same thing: non-Duality, right? And that you are the universe already. So how can I get an upgrade, right? An upgrade is dualistic. You have this, and now I get you this. And then, of course, six months later, they have to have another upgrade that probably costs a few hundred dollars. So, for me, it's a great marketing skill. [To put it] bluntly. And we fall for it because we want more upgrades. Why? We have them constantly on our phone: upgrade, next upgrade, wow! Now we have the iPhone 29, you know, X, Y Zed, and we get to buy it. Now we have an upgrade with our Reiki, and now we have Reiki Z Y Q what is even more powerful. But then we give our power away! Because we [already] are the universe. This is the most important element. What Mikao Usui is trying to tell us, and all these Japanese spiritual teachings as well. You are the universe, what means you have everything inside of you already.
DIR: In a way, it's an act of remembering.
FS: It's about remembering, yes!

DIR: What is your POV on remote a­ttunements? They're becoming a real point of dissent during the pandemic. So, I would love your honest opinion on them as well.
FS: I think this is a problem we have nowadays: that people think that [to practice] Reiki, all you have to do is have the attunement, and that's it. Now you are a Reiki 1. Now you're Reiki 2. Now a Reiki 3. They often think that the Reiki attunement makes you into a Reiki 1 [practitioner,] or makes you into a Reiki 2 or a Reiki 3. And we don't have to practice. "No, the energy is intelligent. It just flows wherever it's needed." We have simplified it so much, but if we think about it, like really, really clearly think about it, then ultimately we come to the conclusion that it doesn't make any sense at all. So, of course, healing, Reiju, we can go into that space beyond time, distance, non-duality. But if we are really honest, then that is very difficult.
Again, you can do the candle test. Do you burn yourself or not? So real non-duality is not easily experienced. And therefore also distance attunements or Reiju is not always [easy to experience.] we might say, "Of course it works!" Of course, we feel something. If I go, "Oh yeah, here it is. Yes, no, no. Now it's coming." Of course, something is taking place, but to learn the system of Reiki, we have to have not just the Reiju. We have to understand the Precepts. We have to understand the symbols and mantras. We have to understand hands-on healing. We have to understand the meditation practices. And ultimately, that is best done in person. Great that we have These kinds of things through Zoom. But you can only see me from [the chest up on the screen.] So even in some classes online, I can switch off my camera. I might be having a coffee and not participating in meditation. And we've done half of it. This is why all the Japanese teachers like Hiroshi Doi, Hyakuten Inamoto, etc., all tell us: please do not teach Reiki 1, 2, and 3 online. They are quite against it. And because they know there is so much more to just the attunement or Reiju.

DIR: No, I love that because I think the discussion has centered more on, "Do I get an appointment online or not," versus, "Will understand I understand the system well?" I think we put too much weight on the attunement when the everyday practice is what really makes a difference. Like I got attunements, some were wonderful, but after a few days I didn't practice, the "feeling" or "energy" faded. I hear a lot of people saying that "My Reiki is gone."
FS: This is it. Absolutely. The other day I heard someone say something that you can just draw a symbol over someone, and they are protected. That's it! Very easy. And I go if you can do this, please do it to everybody! We don't need a vaccine for [the] Corona [virus] because they're protected! No more Corona in the world. Just go and stand on Trafalgar square and draw [the first Reiki symbol] on every person, and then next! And then you teach it to someone else. So you give them a quick attunement, and now they can draw the symbol over everybody else. And everybody's protected, and no one has Corona anymore. And they go, "What? Eh? No, no, it doesn't work like that!" Yes, but you told me that you are protected when you draw this symbol on yourself or over someone. So, we have not just to be a parrot and repeat something. We have to think about it. And this is the most important thing. How can we think about it? [Sitting] on our butt and calming our mind so that we see things clearly.

DIR: We talk a lot about the concept of protection in Reiki, especially in Western lineages, but these probably represent 80-to-90% practitioners, at least in the United States. I do Reiju as a practice, not only a ritual, and one day it hit me: how can I be completely open If I'm protecting myself? Is protection coming from a place of worry which is not in alignment with the Precepts? Can you elaborate a little bit on the concept of protection within the system of Reiki?
FS: Well, I think it's generally in everything. The idea we have to ask ourselves is, why do you want to protect yourself? Right? And then we come to a conclusion, [that is out of] fear and worry. Fear, or worry of the self, right? Of the "I." "I" might pick something up. Now "I" have your issues. So it's all about the "I" again. When we soften that "I": no self, no problem, right? Therefore, [we need to practice] wide open. And this often is seen as being spacious, like space: wide open. We cannot damage space whatsoever. I can get a knife, I can cut here, but space will not be damaged. We need to understand that our true mind is like space. And again, Mikao Usui pointed this out very clearly in his teachings with practices like Joshin Kokyu Ho and the symbols and mantras in Reiki 2 and 3.

DIR: You've been practicing Reiki for many years. How do you keep your practice fresh and juicy? What is your goal for the next few years?
FS: I've never been really goal orientated at all— in work or life. It doesn't interest me. I'm just doing what I'm doing. An old friend who lives in Haarlem, where I live now, [asked me] "Oh, Frans, you'll be doing this for the rest of your life?" And I said, "If I don't like it anymore, I'll do something else, go and work at the supermarket or whatever." He goes, "Really?" I said, "Yeah, else I will do my students a disservice." I'm not very goal orientated. I'm just enjoying the moment as much as I can. It's not always easy. For me, the practice, again, is just being as much as possible in that space of non-attachment and beginner's mind.
When we have a goal, we're also holding on very tight: I want this. When we hold tight, nothing can move. So we have to practice with open hands. Then everything else stays juicy. This is not only in Reiki's system but [it's also in life.]. This is why practicing the system of Reiki is how we practice life. Right? If I hold my relationship like this [Frans closes his fist], then it will be suffocated. If I hold my work life like [Frans closes his fist again], suffocation. So, to keep it fresh, we have to hold it in an open hand, right? Without anger and worry and fear. It's very tricky to do and no attachment. Because if today, I sit and go, "Oh man, this is a really good meditation." And tomorrow I practice, and I go, "It's not so good." Why do I think it's not so good? Because I compare it to yesterday's meditation.
If we can stop comparing: problem solved. But this is the hardest part: to stop comparing. We can see this within the Precepts. Often people say, "Oh, but the precepts don't have the word comparing in it." No, not really? And they go, no, there's "no anger, no worry, no fear." But if you look deep within the Precepts, of course, you come to the word comparing. Not in written form, but it's hidden in the inner meaning of the Precepts. Why do we worry? Why do we get angry? We come again to comparing. And so if we can stop or soften out comparing, then our practice [and] life stay juicy.

DIR: Your practice is very joyful. That has been an inspiration for me. I only teach if I will enjoy it. Whenever it starts to feel like a chore, then I take a break.
FS: It's tricky [when] people start to practice Reiki to earn a living. I don't think it's a good thing. We [should] practice to have a direct experience of our great luminosity, of our inner luminosity. Then we can share that as a "living" or earn some money. Dogen, a Zen master, and I think I'm paraphrasing here, said: "within food and clothing, there is no enlightenment, but within enlightenment, there is food and clothing." And you know, for me, this is so important. We have to check also as Reiki teachers and practitioners what our motivation is?

DIR: Many of us are struggling to make a living, especially with the pandemic. Often when we learn Reiki 2, we want to turn it into our business because we enjoy it so much. But it's not easy to set up a business, and we are not well trained as entrepreneurs. And then, to make money, we start sacrificing or just changing our practice. And yet, the most successful Reiki practitioners are people who are living the Precepts. OK, and some people who are terrific marketing people as well! In my case, I'm grateful to freelance as a writer because it allows me to live my practice as I want to. Sometimes, however, I worry about practitioners just finishing a certification of a few hours thinking they are ready for professional practice because a paper says so.
FS: Yeah. Then we come back to integrity ultimately, right? Being honest. But we live in such an instant gratification [society]: quick, quick, quick; now I am a Reiki "master."

DIR: We have all been through that! I struggled to establish a daily practice, but this makes me appreciate a lot more because now I have a more profound practice. It's something one doesn't want to sacrifice that easily!
FS: Absolutely. This is why I like going to my teacher in Japan. A) he presses buttons. He's not taking any prisoners. He's checking to see; do I get angry? Do I get worried? Do I get fearful? Etc. He's keeping tabs on how I practice, the way I teach, and the way I behave. [Japanese priests] are very dedicated. I mean, [we're talking] about practicing from like four in the morning, till 11 at night for a week and a half or three weeks. Making sure you have as many direct experiences of your great bright line as possible.

DIR: Do you ever get angry?
FS: [Laughs.] I do get angry sometimes. But I think when I'm getting angry, you don't want to be in my neighborhood. I can't remember the last day that I got really angry. It was a long, long time ago. But then I have this; I don't know. I'm a Leo. And I feel like there's this black coming off my eyes, and I could bite someone's head off. I rarely have that kind of anger. It happened, of course, in the past. But I can't remember the exact date anymore—it was a long time ago!

DIR: I want my head to stay on my neck, so I hope I never see you angry! For those who want to reach you, where can they find you, Frans?
FS: They can find me on my website, www.IHReiki.com, or Facebook under Frans Stiene, or the International House of Reiki.

DIR: There are no words to express my gratitude for this podcast for just being the bright light that you are. FS: Always great to hang out with you and practice together. Yeah, I think this is important to laugh and have fun and do great things!

I've always liked the physicality of Reiki. Of bringing mind and body together through hands-on healing, chanting, or the breath. I've been reading an excellent book about body awareness. I wanted to share a few insights about kinetic sense, feelings of being embodied, and wellbeing that really felt relevant for Reiki practice.
In the simplest explanation, your kinetic sense allows you to feel where your body is and to manage movement. That implies vast amounts of data being processed. For example, if you are walking on an incline, the brain will sense through the body all the necessary adjustments to be made for walking efficiently. Your kinetic sense also allows you to feel muscle pain, tension, and relaxation.
Your kinetic sense, however, goes beyond sensing your body. When you are stressed out about something, you notice your abdomen tightening. A kinesthetic experience is, therefore, an emotional experience. People who can't listen to their bodies are not fully connected to their emotions. And by being less in touch with their bodies, they may also suffer from a lack of muscle flexibility, which in turn can affect their perspective in life.
"Kinesthetic awareness affects your physical and emotional flexibility. These two types of flexibility are not separate; they support one another. When your kinesthetic sense is clear, you can experience your feelings as they occur. Essentially, this means you know yourself. As a result, you are more flexible in dealing with stress and better able to make choices about your life circumstances," explains Craig Williamson in his book Muscular Retraining for Pain-Free Living. "We would need to understand the importance of kinesthetic awareness, to stop being disembodied people, and to become embodied people."
Many times we believe that the hand-positions order or sequence is one of the most relevant variables in a Reiki treatment. But when you read this, it points towards awareness as the crucial element of this practice. To use our hands to listen to both our bodies and our emotions. To soften our muscles, and make us more flexible in every sense. To be fully present, to detect worry and anger so we can let them go, to connect with gratitude and compassion. In a few words, to literally embody the precepts.

Every Sunday, I organize a Reiki circle with the lovely Andrea Kartika Deierlein from Thrive Reiki (in my community, Reiki circles are the new Sunday brunch). Before we admit people in the Zoom Room, we spend a few minutes chatting about the day’s theme or meditation.
Last Sunday, we were talking about how we can’t make plans for the future. This is hard on us: we both have family members in Europe, and we used to look forward to those visits.
It made me think about how I am pretty much a “looking-forward” kind of person. Looking forward to the day I would graduate and start working encouraged me to push through years of boredom at university. When I worked full time, looking forward to a Reiki retreat or a vacation allowed me to get through long days of insane stress.
Looking forward to meeting someone, got me through some terrible dates (every New Yorker goes through these—it’s like a rite of passage to test your grit.)
In hindsight, however, I realize that—on many occasions—the “looking forward” also made me stay in situations that were not worth it: toxic relationships, jobs with poor boundaries, etc. I tend to live in the future instead of the now, and that sometimes limits my ability to make changes that would allow me to live the present with more ease.
Of course, I am looking forward to this pandemic madness to end, loosen up, or whatever term you would like to use. But, given the current uncertainty, it’s probably the first time in my life I have no plans, nothing to look forward to or, should I say, nothing to escape too. I am just drifting.
And although this lack of things to look forward to in the future feels horribly depressing at times, it’s also very rich in gifts. I am more present when I eat and enjoy food a lot more (and I am an average cook at best). Washing the dishes feels like a meditation. I even discovered that I walk with most of my weight on the right side (why?!?), which is probably the reason I struggle with my left side in martial arts. Weird insightful experiences that only happen in emptiness.
As I see the world opening up from my computer (we in New York seems to be trapped in this lockdown forever) I wonder if, as soon as I can book a ticket, this ability will vanish, if I will trade the present once more for a future to look forward to or if I will find the right balance.
How are you dealing with the uncertainty? I would love to hear. You can reply to this email or DM through Facebook or Instagram.
Sending much love,
Nathalie

This post was written originally for Reiki Rays.

When I learned Reiki, almost 15 years ago, I took a weekend course that included the first two levels. I loved it, but the following years made me realize that there was a lot more to Reiki practice than what my teacher was able to provide on that weekend. Here are five things I wish I had known from day one.

1. The need for self-practice

That first training was fun, emotional, and magical. But also all over the place, cramming information at warp speed and leaving out some fundamentals. For example, although we took the time to practice hands-on healing on others, we didn’t go over self-care protocol. We were just told to practice.

As a result, I focused mostly on offering sessions, which left me weirdly drained and emotional.

Another teacher pointed towards the importance of self-practice, and it changed my Reiki journey. I became more grounded and started to shed layers of anger and worry, and offer a brighter light to others.

2. The meditation side of Reiki

I went to many classes—most focused almost exclusively on hands-on healing. The only meditation we were taught was Gassho, and we probably did it for like… three minutes.

I still remember one teacher saying, I practice Reiki and meditation. She meant it as separate practices.

But Reiki is meditation. During hands-on healing, we need to be mindful, to be focused and fully present. On top of that, there are several specific Reiki meditations to stimulate and connect more deeply with energy. For example, Joshin Kokyu Ho (Purifying Breath), Seishin Toitsu, or meditating with the mantras and symbols. Even the Reiki precepts can be tools for contemplation.

Adding these meditations to your Reiki practice helps you experience the system beyond hands-on healing and take it to a deeper level: reconnecting with your true essence.

3. I am not doing the healing; I am holding the space for healing

I spent my first years trying so hard for people to feel better, blaming myself if they didn’t. My energy wasn’t “strong enough,” “I didn’t place my hands in the right places,” etc. Understanding that my job as a practitioner was to do my own work first in order to be able to be fully present during sessions, was a complete game-changer.

4. Reaching a plateau is ok

Sometimes our practice becomes blah for a bit. No significant insights, few sensations, just regular, old practice. And that is good! We are processing and integrating. It usually ends with a big aha (you only need patience). If it lasts, it may be a sign that it’s time to reach out to our teacher or mentor who can provide guidance to help us move forward. Which leads me to…

5. The need for mentoring and continuing education

When I did my certifications, I was told that that was all the training I needed. The rest was practice, practice, practice. The thing is that when you practice, that’s the moment questions pop up.

When I was researching to do my Reiki master, it hit me: Mikao Usui studied Japanese spiritual practices for decades and we expect to learn his system… in a couple of weekends? So I called my teacher and asked if she would provide long-term mentoring. She answered that it was not needed. That if I felt stuck, she would be happy to give me a chakra balancing session.

After taking Reiki level 3 training four times, attending many retreats, and training in Japan, I understand – she wasn’t able to provide mentoring because she literally didn’t know any more than what she taught in those two weekends.

Reiki practice seems simple. You get an attunement, learn a few techniques and voila, you’re done. But this simplicity is deceptive. There are many layers to the understanding of the system. We need to shift our mindset towards one of continuing education. Of questioning and contemplation of the practice. Of having a mentor and serving as a mentor.

Think about it; it happens in yoga, martial arts, and most practices. Why not Reiki?

If you just started your Reiki practice, I hope these five lessons I learned the hard way, help you have a smoother road towards a deeply fulfilling practice.

It feels like day 813205 of the lock-down. It's rainy. I am not feeling that great. And that's OK.
Sometimes, I try to justify all of this madness by thinking of all the good things coming out of it. I am practicing a lot. Becoming closer to friends and family who live far away. And—because of my niece's obsession with a psycho-socialite that teaches killer workouts—I may even end up with a soupcon of abs for the first time in my life.
But staying positive all the time can feel exhausting. On those moments, I need to let go. To understand shit happens, and there is no need to justify it. To eat pancakes for dinner. To take a day off Zoom and listen to my worries, my anger, my grief. To hold space for these feelings that are often overwhelming, often enlightening.
Because balance is only found in that tiny space that lies between our joy and our grief, our hopes and fears, our OKness, and not OKness. Without darkness, there is no light.
Love,
Nathalie