Oliver Drewes is a Reiki master practitioner based in Germany. He came across the practice in 2010, completed the first and second level of Western-style Reiki training in 2011. In 2015-2016, Oliver learned the first three levels of training of the Gendai Reiki Hō school. In autumn 2016, he completed the master and teacher training directly with the founder of the Gendai-Reiki method, Hiroshi Doi Sensei, in Japan, after repeating the previous levels of training.

Oliver is also the founder of Holistika, a book imprint that has published the work of Doi Sensei (for German-speaking countries), Frank Glatzer, and Frans Stiene's translation of The Inner Heart of Reiki (he was also the actual translator).

In addition to teaching the Reiki system, Oliver has given lectures at the ProReiki Regional Group Cologne, the professional association ProReiki, and the Reiki Convention.

DIVE INTO REIKI: Hi, Oliver. Thank you so much for accepting my invitation. I like to start every interview with the same question: how did you come in contact with Reiki practice? 
OLIVER DREWES: My Reiki way began when I was very young. Sev brought me to Reiki [the first one was the] funeral of my great grandfather. At this time, I had a very special experience. I thought that I had seen him. So we all had been at the cemetery. It was on [a] hill. The sun was very strong, and suddenly I had the impression that I had seen him and that he had seen me. And at that moment, I lost consciousness, and my father saved me from falling. And all the years after, I had the impression that I had seen him. I never said I had seen him. I didn't want to be a liar. I was never sure whether I really saw him or not. This occupied my mind for more than 25 years.
In 2006, my parents gave me a phone call that there was a lady on the television. She brought people back to former lives as well as to experiences in their childhood. And they told me this could be a chance to review what I experienced. So I came in contact with this lady, and finally, she invited me to train. To my surprise, I got it as a gift from her… it was the training to become a practitioner in regression therapy. It was a nice experience. I could bring people back to their former lives, but I had not been able to do this myself. I was not able to give up control. I needed to be more relaxed. 
I decided to go to a healing practitioner school in Germany to learn more about relaxation methods. There was an advertisement for Reiki. I was very interested—healing with hands sounded interesting. I went to the south of Germany because there was one seminar just one or two weeks later. When I'm interested in something, I'm not looking when it's [happening] nearby. I just want to do it right now. So, I went to the South of Germany [for] my first Reiki seminar. I'm still in contact with and friends with that teacher, but it was not the purest Reiki I could experience. It was a mixture of Reiki and healing with gemstones. I was more interested in the pure Reiki. I changed teachers, and then I found myself in a seminar, which was a mixture of Reiki and healing with angels. It was not the pure Reiki I was looking for either. I decided to continue my Reiki way when the right time came, and I would have found the right teacher. 
In 2013, I went to London to the Arthur Findlay College because I wanted to know more about mediumship and the vision I had of my great grandfather. We learned a special scanning method. I could see people's problems and pains. It was very extraordinary. I went to the tutor and said, "Oh, I have seen…." He said, "No, stop, Oliver. Just get used to it. You have not seen; you have been shown. That's a big difference, but anyway, it's a gift, and you should think about what to do with it." And then I said, "Well, if this is a gift, maybe it's the right time to continue my way with and dedicate myself to healing again." 
[Back] in Germany, I've been looking for a new teacher in stool and found one in Cologne, not far from where I live. Then everything started flowing. After that, I got the chance to go to Japan to learn from Hiroshi Doi [founder of Gendai Reiki.] I had the chance to translate his books. And later, I had the chance to be a speaker at different events and even got to know Frans Stiene personally. With him, I had the chance to organize trips to Japan. 
My mother later told me that she had an experience that her grandfather—that was my great-grandfather—saved our family from an accident. She saw him making signs not to do certain things. And Her telling me that made it easier for me to accept my experience than any regression therapy or other [modalities.] I didn't need anymore. It was clear to me that these things could happen. But, anyway, it brought me to Reiki and where I am today.

Oliver Drewes next to Mikao Usui’s memorial stone.

DIR: You studied with eight Reiki teachers. Do you advise people to study with different masters, and what did you gain from doing so?
OD: As I mentioned first, I was looking for pure Reiki. It was fantastic to combine healing with stones. I think if someone is doing this during a treatment, it's great. But if you tell students about this, it's like giving the association that Reiki power wouldn't be strong enough and requires healing stones. The same with angels. That was not my way. So there, I already needed to go to a different teacher. Learning Gendai Reiki [gave me] more of the Japanese perspective. The style that I'm teaching and that I learned from Hiroshi Doi is nice. It's a combination of the Western and the traditional Reiki. [It includes] working with chakras, a great tool, but it's not the [authentic] Japanese way. Chakras come from India.
I wanted to go even [deeper] into the roots [of the Reiki system]. I found Frans Stiene. I really appreciate his style and his teachings. He is learning from priests in Japan to see [the practice] from a different [perspective]. You don't need to be a Buddhist or know very much about esoteric Buddhism; you can have any religion [to practice Reiki]—that's clear. But [understanding Buddhism] gives a greater understanding. As we didn't [grow up with] Japanese culture, some things have to be explained to understand what was meant by [the teachings.] 
This is how I came to the first four teachers. Then I said, "Okay, let's have a look at other styles." I wanted to have a look at Jikiden Reiki. So I taught a friend of mine Gendai Reiki Ho, and I studied Jikiden from him. There are many similarities, but some things are quite different. And then, I had the chance to see the Reiki style of Chris Marsh [a renowned UK Reiki master who passed away at the beginning of 2021]. I took every opportunity to [study] different teachers and different styles. I think this is okay. Some teachers are very strict and say, "If you learn from me, it's only me and my style." And maybe even, "My style is better, and don't look at others." But I mean, if you're going to school, you have a teacher for English, you have a teacher for mathematics, and a teacher for biology. You get knowledge from different teachers. Why not in Reiki? I mean, Reiki has the same origin. Every teacher has their own way. 
Hiroshi Doi, for example, compares Reiki with climbing Mount Fuji. You can go until the middle, and you decide just to be in the healthy soul. But you can continue and take the spiritual path. And when you do that, you may reach the top, Natsumi Ritsumei—a state of inner happiness and inner calmness. Every guide has his group to bring them to the top of Mount Fuji. And everyone has their way. Maybe one way is straighter; maybe the other has more views; maybe one is more exhausting, one is more relaxed, but all guides have different routes to go to the top of the mountain. It is the same with Reiki teachers. All are guides to bring their students to the top, bring them to a point to reach Natsumi Ritsumei [following] the way [that worked for them.]. There is no wrong way—they're all alternative ways [that come from] the same origin.

DIR: I love this POV beyond the metaphor. Sometimes in the Reiki community, we remain separate because we practice different styles instead of coming together to learn from each other. We should encourage the exchange between practitioners. 
OD: Yeah. I had a couple of times every month a meeting with that friend. Both of our students would come, and we had a Reiki exchange. Someone said to me, "I'm not very happy with the Jikiden [style]. I don't want to deal with that." And I said, "Sorry, this is my friend. We do this in cooperation. We want to make something clear: it's not one style against the other. We are doing this together. We are one Reiki family."
You can see Mikao Usui as the founder and then compare it with a big tree. He is the root. And then the tree has many branches, many leaves. It's not one against the other or one better than the other. And if there is a possibility for cooperation, I think this will offer students and participants a better understanding. It allows us to see some things from a different point of view.

DIR: You also mentioned traveling to Japan. When I traveled to Japan, I understood Reiki to a whole new level. You organize trips to Japan to follow Mikao Usui's path. Can you tell us how you came up with that idea? 
OD: [After] my first Reiki seminar, the teacher offered to choose between different raw quartz stones. That was a tradition in his style. I chose one, and it happened to be formed like a pyramid with three sides. But on one side, there was a little [defect]. And I said, "Why did I take this one?" I'm a perfectionist. And it could be so perfect if this [minor defect] wouldn't have been there. And then there was like a big voice saying, "Oliver, this stone is for you always to remember to take things as they are, and not as you want them to [be.]." I was surprised, [I kept] looking around [trying to find] who was speaking. It was an experience. At that time, I had dreams. One of those dreams was that I saw myself in Japan, organizing trips for people from all over the world. But the interesting thing was that they learned Reiki and had a seminar with a Western teacher. 
When I woke up, I said, "Well, that's strange. If ever in the future, I would bring people to Japan to learn Reiki there, the country of origin, of course, I would look for a Japanese teacher. Why should I have a Westerner teaching Western people in Japan? That does not make sense! So, 15 years later, more or less, when I was there with Frans [Stiene, the co-founder of the International House of Reiki], I said, "Oh, stop! That's exactly what I was dreaming. It came true." I was not thinking of this [dream] all the time. It was not a [goal] for me, but when I found myself [in Japan] with the group, I said, "Oh, okay! I remember that dream. That's interesting."
[The idea for the trip] came [about] first after having been in the class of Hiroshi Doi in 2016. I wanted to organize trips to Japan, including a seminar with Doi. I wanted to translate from English into German for my group. But it happened that the schedule from November was changed to September because there was an unveiling ceremony of a special Memorial stone that Hiroshi Doi had put in the birth town of Mikao Usui, and all the plans changed. I couldn't go in November. The American group was going in September. Later, Hiroshi Doi said, "Oh, I don't know if I would do this the next year. I was born in 1935. I'm quite advanced in age. I'm not sure." I looked for alternatives. I [talked to] Frans, and we said, "Let's do this together." 
I had everything organized. I already had organized trips to India, Sri Lanka, and Bali for people interested in spirituality. I already had some experience. Many of [Frans'] students joined us in 2019. We had a wonderful group with people from New Zealand, Australia, the UK, Italy, and [many] from the US. It was an experience to be in the country of origin for them, to practice Reiki there. I think it's a really different energy, especially when you find yourself on Mount Karama or even Mount Hiei, which is the place of origin of Buddhism in Japan. You can feel it there on the mountain with every step you make, every breath you take. There is so much of that original energy. It makes a difference. 
The other aspect was that it was so nice that people from all over the world [formed] one group. We're part of the community, not only in our local town, in our country or continent, but everywhere. Friendships [were] started between the seminar takers and [with the] Japanese Reiki master that I presented in the meeting with Hiroshi Doi. It was so great for me as an organizer to see that. 
I think doing this as a kind of pilgrimage—to see where Mikao Usui went to school, where he lived, the history of this town, and how everything developed gives you a better understanding [of the Reiki system.] You [get] the picture. Later, [when you teach a] class, you can show the students, "Look, this is where [Miako Usui] went to school. This is where his grandfather and uncle had the sake manufacturing." You can teach from your own experience. I think this makes a difference. Normally as a teacher, depending on where you learn, you teach what you have learned. So, it's an indirect knowledge [based on] the experience someone else [had]. But if you're in Japan experiencing this yourself, meditating on Mount Kurama and feeling that energy, it's your direct experience that you're teaching.

DIR: Direct experience can mean going to Japan or doing the work where you live: practicing or reading books. However, I have to say, there is something exceptional about being in Japan. For me, it was understanding the power of the simplicity of the Reiki system versus complicating it. When you sit in meditation in Japan, you feel that it is perfect as conceived with your whole body, mind, and soul. 
You also had a great story from one of your trips to Japan about how, as practitioners, we think the grass is always greener in other countries, especially when it comes to Reiki in healthcare. 
OD: Yeah. People from my group from the US [met] a Japanese Reiki master that I presented, and they said, "Ah, it's so different here in Japan. Reiki is so well accepted, and you're doing this in every hospital. It's so different." And the [Japanese said,] "That's not really the case. We are fighting for acceptance. It's not in every hospital, as is the case in Germany. There they do this in every hospital, and it's so well accepted." I said, "Well, no, not really. There are some hospitals [offering] Reiki, but it's not common. It's not in every hospital, and it's not accepted everywhere. It's more and more popular, but we in Germany read that is the case in the US, that we'll have so many hospitals working with Reiki and it's so well accepted." So, each of us believed that [things were better] in another country. 
It's a great vision for the future: that all over the world, [Reiki] is much more accepted and gets [to be a] standards therapy in hospitals. But at the moment, we had to experience that it was more a dream than a reality.

DIR: What would be your advice on communicating about the Reiki system to be more accepted in hospitals or community centers in our countries.
OD: There is a teaching in Gendai [Reiki] from Hiroshi Doi: focus on Reiki, be aware of that energy, be with it, but do the best you can and leave the rest to the universe. And I think at the same, we can, of course, have the [goal] to have it more accepted in hospitals; we can talk about this with our friends, with our relatives, we don't have to hide… but we cannot force it. It will come with time. So I think there are some lessons from the universe, [and one of them] is patience. We just need to be patient. I think in the next years and decades, [Reiki] will develop. 
What we can do [meanwhile] is to come to the core of Reiki. I mean, hands-on healing is great. A treatment is fantastic, but for me, the core is the Precepts [or Principles]. If you focus on that, if you integrate this into your daily life—not to be angry, not to worry, and to be thankful—you attract things, that's [the] secret. 
Normally you get something and, after [you] receive it, you are thankful. But the secret thing is, first of all, being thankful [beforehand]. And then, with the law of resonance, you attract exactly this into your life. So be aware of your frequency, be aware of your thoughts, because you're attracting exactly more of that. 
If everyone dedicates more [attention] to the precepts, sharing this knowledge, and integrating them into their lives, we automatically have a different understanding and communication with each other. And finally, even how we treat our environment, our planet, the respect between others and all beings. I think that makes a difference. We are a bit like a light in the darkness if we are caring for Reiki. The people who never had any experience [with it] see us [and ask,] "Why are you behaving like this? What are the things you are convinced of?" We can just be an example and then [share with] other people what our understanding is. 

DIR: I think it is so important what you mentioned about using the Reiki precepts as awareness tools for what's going on with yourself versus following them like if they were commandments. Thank you for sharing that. It's an important insight to help us integrate Reiki into our daily life. And talking about this, what is a gift Reiki has brought into your life? 
OD: Reiki really is a gift. I think it's so nice to work with it. It's so nice to teach this to other people and see what a difference it makes in their lives. They tell me about their experiences with family with their health; this is such nice feedback. 

DIR: You learned many modalities and are a medium. Why did you decide to stick to traditional Reiki when it comes to teaching? 
OD: I think [the modalities and mediumship] are personal experiences. So, when I'm teaching, for example, Gendai Reiki, then I'm teaching just Gendai Reiki. And I tell people there are other teachers, and they have different points of view. But at that moment, I'm focusing on [Gendai's] teaching to give this style's pure content. If I'm teaching what I've learned from Frans—he works from the hara, less with chakras—then it's different teaching. Of course, I can show them that I learned from other teachers with different points of view, but I always tell them this is the pure teaching. If you are teaching this style or that style, keep each clean, don't mix them.
Of course, everybody is free to create new styles. But I think if you just keep it clean, then it can survive in this original nature. If everybody means to create something new just for having his name or his style, it's possibly more a speck of the ego and not the [pure motivation to share Reiki.

DIR: The ego part is key, right? We may have a spiritual practice, but It doesn't mean our ego is always under control. 
OD: I think too that people [should not] expect anything. If they heard that some people had some sensations or visions during the attunement, they shouldn't be disappointed when they did not have them. They should come without any expectation. And then it's even much more worth it if something happens or they experienced something. And I think it's the same with Reiki. There are people who are [innately] connected to the spiritual world. [During] a treatment, [their] hand is attracted to where it is required. Others might hear like a voice saying, "Well, look for the knee as well or care for the shoulder." Every person is different, and every treatment is different. It's not that you need to be a medium or that you need to work with mediumship [to have intuition]. It's independent of Reiki. You can have it, it's an advantage, but it's not a disadvantage if you don't have it. And many things develop in time. The more you're doing Reiki, the more treatments you give, the more self-treatments you have, you're more in that energy, the more things change and develop you as a person and advance that whole thing.

DIR: I think you said two essential things. One is expectations getting in the way of experiencing the practice. And the other thing is that there is one practice, but we all will express it differently. How do you try to control your expectations from the practice or life in general?
OD: Sometimes you tell the students, "You have an intention, there's something that you would like to reach with Reiki, but you don't need to focus so much on it." In Japanese, it's the "nen," the will to do something. On one side, you have an intention to do something; on the other side, you should do this without any intention. So sometimes it's difficult to understand. So I think it's important to have a [goal], to say, "I want to reach this for my clients," but then not to focus so much on it. So just let the Reiki energy flow and work. Once the [goal] is defined, it's good. But thinking all the time about the [goal] is not that good and may distract you from just being a channel and letting Reiki flow. You are not the one to do something. You're just one to channel the energy. And in the end, it's the person who heals himself. We're just creating room for the Reiki energy to work and where all of this can happen, but we are not responsible for its success.

DIR: I love what you say because I think most of us fall into two extremes: we want to control the outcome too much, or we're unaccountable. It's a balance of aiming in the right direction and then letting go. Like archery in a way: you aim and then let that arrow go and do its work. But that is something that takes a lot of practice. 
OD: I think an important of life is not to give up. So if you have had [Reiki 1 Level training], just continue; read your manual again, practice, practice, practice, and don't stop practicing. You have to go on with that to be in it. I think that's a challenge for some people. In these times, many people have a seminar here, a seminar there. Want to have more knowledge from this, from that. There are so many different aspects that you can learn, but if you [need to] focus and keep practicing. Don't stop practicing. Integrate this in your life. I think this is the key to reaching something in the end.

DIR: Yes, we need to imprint that in our minds: do not give up, keep practicing. Changing tracks, you are also a publisher of books about spirituality. A lot of people want to write their own Reiki books. Do you have any advice for them? 
OD: Well, the whole publishing world changed a lot in the last ten, 15 years. I have two publishing houses at the moment. The first I started in 2002…. And then I had to launch the second editorial or publishing house because the [readership] was different. The first one was about keeping animals and pets in your house. And the other one was about spirituality. Two different kinds of readers, so I decided to have two different publishing houses. [I've heard] from colleagues that have been writing Reiki books successfully in the past. Ten years ago, they wrote a book, and if it was successful, they sold twenty to thirty thousand [books.} Then they had a second, third, and up to eight different editions. 
It's quite different today. Even the most successful authors of Reiki books—many of them I know personally—are happy to reach a quantity of maybe 500 books in the first year. These are not the numbers that we were used to in the past. It's is a challenge if you are printing something, not the book on-demand [model]. Book on-demand is nice if you want to have something saying, "I have written a book." You can never get it to the wholesale markets or the shops because you have to discount. And this discount is so big that in the end, the printing costs are higher than the discount you give. So, it's absolutely impossible to work professionally with a book on demands—you can just have this as a hobby. You can have it as personal satisfaction, the fact sheet, but you can't really sell quantity and cover your costs. 
If you do it the professional way, that means you need to print books. To print means quantity. So you have the printing machines running, and that's the most expensive thing. If you print 2000 copies or 3000 copies, that does not make [much difference in the] price. Just to keep the machine running, that's the main cost. If you divide the total cost by the quantity you have made, the more books printed, the more attractive the price. In my experience, I need to print at least two to three thousand books to have a price that's good enough to [sell] wholesale and to book shops. But, if you are just selling quantities of 500 [books per year], you need six years to sell them all. You need to store them in a warehouse. 
Sometimes with other [kind of] books, you're more successful. You have higher quantities. But Reiki [has become] especially difficult. Just this year, I've been speaking with many bookshops and [asking them why they don't] have one Reiki book on the shelves. Why is that? They said, "Well, it's not popular. At the moment, we sell books about yoga, yoga Nidra, yin yoga, but Reiki is a thing of the past. It's not popular. It's not fashionable." So for me, Reiki is not about popularity or fashion. It's still important these days, but that's the thinking of many shop owners. They just carry one trend and then another trend. Reiki is something they sold successfully in the past, but most of them are not interested in having this on their shelves [now]. So it's quite difficult to do Reiki book projects at this moment, at least from my experience here in the German market, which includes German-speaking countries like Austria and Switzerland. Maybe it might be different than other parts of the world.  

DIR: I appreciate your answer. I think it's also great to know that you can write your book, go ahead— just don't expect to become a bestseller or a millionaire!
I have one last question. I ask everyone I interview the following, "What is your biggest Reiki 'oops'?" 
OD: Yes, there is one story that I would like to share. It's something I tell my students in class—it's nothing I must be ashamed of. Of course, it's a mistake, but I think a mistake is just a bad word for an experience. I think as humans, we're making experiences and not mistakes. And from that, we can learn, and others have the chance to learn. 
I was a Reiki Level 2 student, and we were asked to practice distance healing. We found ourselves in a room with ten people, five were giving distance healing, and five were receiving. I had to work with a gentleman named Peter from Cologne, and he was sitting on his chair about ten meters away. So I started by being aware of being connected with Reiki, then gave this treatment to Peter, starting with his head and letting Reiki flow. Then I thought, "Oh, that's a nice lady on my side. She's attractive." I was single at that time. "Oh, she has beautiful eyes. How would it be to be with that girl? We would both be Reiki practitioners, not just one part of a couple. We could share this. We could have a nice walk. How would it feel to hold her hand." And then I went, "What are you doing? You were asked to give distant healing and not to care for the lady at your side!" I said, "Well, how much time did I lose with that? Okay. I won't do the upper part of Peter's body. I will just start with his legs." So, I gave this treatment to the legs, to the knees, and the feet. When Peter gave me feedback, he said, "I have to ask you something? I fell your presence on my head. It was so strong, but what happened then? It's like, Oliver left the room; there is nobody there anymore. Hello, Oliver, where are you? Nothing. And then you continue with next with my legs. In the meantime, what did you do? Where were you? I said, "Peter, first, congratulations, you are able to feel the Reiki energy. What happened was that I was not focused. I was thinking more about the lady at my side than giving you a treatment. I'm very sorry. Let's see this as a lesson!"
When I'm telling this [story] to my students, I say there are five different things we can learn from this. The first thing is Reiki energy exists. The second is you can feel Reiki energy. The third is you need to be focused when giving Reiki. So when you give Reiki, just give Reiki, don't think about what to cook in the evening, what to buy tomorrow. Be in the moment, be in the now. The fourth thing is to be aware that focusing matters, that it makes a difference. And the last thing to be aware is that skilled clients could read us.

DIR: I love that story. As you said, it gives you so much teaching material! Thank you for sharing that, Oliver. 
OD: You're welcome.

DIR: I want to thank you for your time for your kindness. This interview is so filled with wisdom, and also I love how organized your mind is compared to mine. I appreciate how articulate and clear your answers were. Thank you so much.
OD: Well, thank you very much for inviting me!

Drawing inspired by Oliver Drewes (© nathalie jaspar)

Ifetayo White is a Reiki Master Teacher who is the founder and director of The Lowcountry School of Reiki on St. Helena Island, SC.  Having practiced and taught Reiki for more than 25 years, Ifetayo was attuned in 2020 as a Usui Shinpiden Reiki Master by Frans Stiene of the International House of Reiki. Her training as a doula, a massage therapist, and Jin Shin Do acupressure practitioner, and 10 years of experience working in mental health have created the container for her practice in somatic healing of traumatic memory stored in the body. For Ifetayo, Reiki is the foundation of everything she does in her life and is devoted to the daily practices of living Reiki.

DIVE INTO REIKI: Ifetayo, thank you so much for joining me. I see you, and I just smile!
IFETAYO WHITE: It's a pleasure to be here. Every time we come together, I have chills and tangles and excitement. Thank you so much for inviting me.

DIR: It's going to be a lovefest. Sorry. I like to start every interview with the same question: how did you come in contact with Reiki, and how did your journey begin?
IF: It's an interesting journey. My first experience with Reiki was in the 80s. I would think around 1984. I'm from Washington DC, and around that time, I was meeting the first Reiki practitioners… Eventually, one of my best friends became Reiki 1 first. She eventually became a Reiki master and became my Reiki teacher. At that time, I don't think anyone was charging for Reiki. At least my friends weren't. And so, we were all lined up all the time waiting to receive. And fortunately, Nathalie, my friend I owned a duplex house. She rented the first floor. So, it was always like nonstop Reiki. They had a lot of Reiki shares. So yeah, it became a go-to for me for any discomfort. Even when practitioners wanted to practice, I was always with my hand up. I try to remember what it was, what was I feeling, I'd know that I felt better. That's all I can think now because it was quite a while ago. I personally was not at all thinking about becoming a practitioner or a teacher. I was just really interested in receiving.

 DIR: That's beautiful. Most of us Reiki practitioners have a difficult time receiving.
IF: Yeah. And it took many years before me of receiving before I became attuned. I became attuned to Reiki one and Reiki 2 in 1995 for my 50th birthday. The same friend who had become a Reiki master asked if she could give me Reiki 1 and 2. And at that time, I was a massage therapist and reflexologist. I was devoted to those practices, and I really did not feel a calling to Reiki. I loved the practice, but I felt as though I had good energy in my hands; everyone said you have good energy.

My friend assured me that if I had an attunement, there was some more for me to know and experience. I didn't initially say yes to her offer. I said, "Let me meditate on it." I was a big meditator. In my meditation, what I felt and received guidance was, "Receive the gift." That's all I heard. And that was that's profound. The gift has been the gift that has continued to give. Always.

So, on my 50th birthday [I became Reiki 1], and two months later, I became Reiki 2. In 1999, four years later, a student of my Reiki master who had become a Reiki master needed someone to practice with. She said, "Can I attune you as a Reiki master teacher?" And I was like, "Sure." I hadn't planned to teach. I'm really, that was not my plan. So, I tell so many of my students, "Reiki has its way with you." Reiki called me more than I called it to me. It was divine. Reiki is my life now.

DIR: A couple of things I would like to highlight from what you said: that you were able to receive first. Often as practitioners, we want to give sessions, and we hardly receive any. And then you took the time to connect with your inner self to check if you really wanted to move forward into Reiki training.
IF: I don't know how to explain it, except that's how it was. My journey was that way. And my friend, who was my first Reiki master, no longer practices… I was the first Reiki master in Beaufort, South Carolina when I moved [here] in 2000. And that was interesting. I live on St. Helena Island, but it's part of Beaufort County... It's more rural where I live. But as I said, Reiki has its way with us. It's divine. We can't control it, as you know from practicing. Our lives are influenced nonstop by Reiki. My life is informed by Reiki.

DIR: Yeah. And that's an amazing thing, right? It happens to us that we learn Reiki because the practice calls us. But often, it isn't until we find a special teacher or book that we really grow into it.
IF: Yes. I had been teaching for 20 years before I met Frans [Stiene]. Prior to that, around a year before I met him, one of my [Reiki] master's students had seen his book somewhere, The Inner Heart of Reiki. And she said, "Oh Ifetayo, you have to have this book," and she bought it for me. I couldn't put it down. I've read it over and over. I wish I could show you my copy right now. It's so dogeared. I buy new copies and give them away, Nathalie. And I just keep my copy. But that [book] became my Bible in so many ways. I learned so much, I could feel something transforming in myself.

Then I saw an announcement from the Omega Institute that Frans would be in New York in May 2019. So, I went there, and I met him. We were chanting the precepts in Japanese… Since that time, he came to my home in St. Helena in February of 2020. He came and taught Reiki 3 - Shinpiden level at my home to 12 women. In rural South Carolina! I couldn't believe he would come. We had a wonderful time, and I have not been the same since then.

My whole practice has transformed. I teach more Reiki masters now than ever. [My daily Reiki practice has changed. Before] I gave myself Reiki every day. I said my precepts every day. Now there's a whole lot more than I do every day. I'm so grateful for him and the expansion of my life and my practice. For the capacity to reach so many more beautiful beings and share Reiki with them as I intend. My practice has the intention of bringing and supporting beautiful beings back to their true selves. [Supporting] the knowing and living from that place of light within. And that's why I teach really—and everything else is gravy.

DIR: What you describe is going from an energy modality focused on well-being and physical improvement to a spiritual practice to reconnect with our true essence with an energetic component.
IF: Absolutely. I've always been a very spiritual person. I'm a deep seeker. When Frans came, it was like that connection just filled up everything that my heart had been asking for. And so, yes, Reiki is my spiritual practice, and it is my healing practice. And it is my love practice and everything practice.

 DIR: Your name has a beautiful translation. And for me your name, it's almost like the definition of Reiki. So, I would love for you to share that translation?
IF: My name is a spiritually-given name from the Yoruba African tradition. And it is now my legal name. I changed my name legally to Ifetayo Jacqueline White. Jacqueline was my birth name, which is equally beautiful. But Ifetayo was given to me by a priest who saw me and said, "You are Ifetayo." I didn't choose the name. And the name means "love that brings joy." And of course, like with any name, the request is to grow into that energy. So, since I was 49—I think that's when Ifetayo became my name—there have been many years of growing into it. Reiki has been a big part of that for me: growing into the light that I am. Living and expressing that light, that love, that joy. That's who I am. And I'm so grateful.

I love that you have that you brought [Reiki and my name] together. [In a way] in my 49th year, the year before I became Reiki, the name was calling Reiki to bring all of the support I needed to live out this name destiny.

DIR: It's almost like pointing towards how our practice should be. I know we're obsessed with shadow work lately, but sometimes we need to let go of shadows and sit in our light.
You're bringing Reiki to rural communities, to people who didn't have access to it. Often, it seems that Reiki is a practice mostly for hipsters or people who are into the new age movements in cities versus other communities that tend to be more diverse.  When we talked previously, you mentioned something that stuck in my mind: that there is no race or color in oneness, but we incarnate the person we are to bring access to the practice to specific groups of people. Can you elaborate a bit on that?
IF: Absolutely. As I shared earlier, I am from Washington DC, and I learned about Reiki in Washington DC—a city, an urban area. I attended the unity metaphysical Christian Church at that time for 10 years. And that's where all these Reiki people were. I was also a transcendental meditator. All of this was sort of mixing up together. My church was multi-racial, but our minister was African American. And so, there were just a lot of African-American people in that congregation who were very interested in new-age at that time.

That's where I was nurtured. My first Reiki master was an African American woman. The first African American woman Reiki master in DC is a friend of mine, Gwen Mitchell, who's now in California. So, for me, [I felt there] was always many people of color practicing Reiki. I never thought so much about it. We had our own community of healers and spiritual people in DC who were African American because we were just relating to one another. But as I moved forward and I began teaching in Beaufort, South Caroline, [this changed.] South Carolina is actually a part of the Bible belt of the south. It was very interesting. Then, in 2000, I was very low-key about Reiki. There had been a lot of [bad] press around that time from the Southern Baptist and from the Catholic church about Reiki and it not being as sanctified as we know it to be. So, I didn't really speak much about being a Reiki teacher at that time, except I [when] was practicing massage. Some of the massage therapists in town knew. And my first student there in Beaufort, South Carolina, was a massage therapist from a family that has the biggest tomato business in our county. They still do. They just send out a lot of tomatoes everywhere.

I've been blessed because of how I look, Nathalie. I am not attached to any of it. This is just the divine plan that was created before I got here. For me to serve in the way that is the easiest path.  Probably, therefore, I will attract to myself many people of color who are African American, but not only them. I've taught so many people! I can't even tell you! And of all races! But in rural South Carolina, and people now are traveling to stay with me to learn. I have an Airbnb, so I have room for people. I've taught Reiki for cakes, for vegetables as an exchange. When there is an openness from anyone in my community, I want to say yes, you can be Reiki in whatever way we can make that happen.

I worked in mental health with youth for 10 years. There were teenagers that I worked with whom I attuned. Particularly a couple of young women who were pregnant and who were going to have babies. I was sharing Reiki with them, and it just made sense that they would become Reiki for their babies, for themselves, for their mental health, for their birthing experience. Oneness is so dear [to me]. It's one of my highest vibrations of me. I'm grateful that I live and that from that place of love and non-duality, and no separation to be able to serve those folks who look like me. Who feel comfortable [with me.] Because, as we know, at our level of evolution and growth, we will turn to go to people who we feel comfortable with and who we feel simpatico with. So, it's been a blessing for me.

As I shared earlier, my intention for teaching Reiki is to reawaken the truth of who we are inside of ourselves. For me, trauma healing begins inside. If we are attuned to Reiki and are carrying that Reiki energy in us, then the work has begun in healing, whatever traumas we are aware of.

DIR: This is so great because often, the communities who could benefit more from Reiki in a country where healthcare is so expensive are the ones who are less exposed to it. I believe you were requesting some grants to spread that work.

IF: Yes. I've been researching and having other research for me. I am particularly interested in grants that will support myself and other Reiki masters in attuning women of color, particularly young women. Now there are a lot more grants out to address particular challenges in the black community. And because I [am] a doula… I support a lot of women in my community who are doulas and midwives. We're all very familiar with the challenges of death rates of women of color [in childbirth] in our country, particularly in our state. We're one of the highest. So [I'm looking for] grants to work either from the doula side, or just for attuning women to become Reiki practitioners so that they can [share with] themselves, first, and then their families and their community. That's the reason why I'm actively engaged in researching funding.

DIR: Reiki can be translated as ancestral energy, and you perform a beautiful ritual with the Atlantic Ocean that has to do with that concept. Could you please share it with our listeners?
IF: I daily go to the beach, which is seven miles from my house. One day, soon after I moved to Beaufort when I was in meditation, it came to me that one of my purposes for being here is to go to the ocean and to send Reiki to the Atlantic Ocean. To the path of the slave trade from Western Africa and other parts of Africa to particularly South Carolina, which was the hub of the slave trade in America. So, every day as that is my practice. I send Reiki to that passage and to all the souls, including those folks who owned the boats and everybody involved. I send my love, my healing energy, my Reiki energy. And that's my contribution, you know? It's a calling. I don't have any other words to say it.

DIR: It's beautiful. When I was in Japan, the priest always told me, you don't sit just by yourself. You sit with all your ancestors. We are born into our personas for a reason. In my case, there is probably a lot of WWII trauma. I find it very beautiful that we can clear that energy that we carry from hundreds of years.
IF: To me, Nathalie, it's not hard, it's not that difficult, particularly if you carry Reiki. It's just another way of extending love—love is healing—and connect with our hearts. To connect to another energy, which is what trauma is. It's all energy. So we simply extend and expand the love and the Reiki from ourselves to bless whatever situations need to be blessed. So I'm grateful.

I want to go back a little bit to when you were talking about activism. Frans, to me, is a major activist in his way. He's so the inspiration. You are also in your way. Those of us who are out there, in whatever way, sharing this practice. Sharing Reiki is activism to me. I'm a child of the sixties and seventies. I was an activist and civil rights fighter. I was marching. I had a big Afro. That's my core—a big part of my spirit. This is a gift: to be able to be Reiki and to be an activist for love and oneness in the world.

 DIR: In a world where most Reiki practitioners are trained in 8-hour classes, what do you think about holding the space to healing trauma without any further training in this area? What advice would you give new Reiki practitioners interested in this area?
IF: You know, I'm a "simplist." I don't know if that's a word; I just made it up. I'm all about simplicity. About what is simple. And to me, energy is simple. Energy is basic. As I speak with my students or clients, I always bring it back to the basics—we're working with energy. And in this case, we're working with energy that has become frozen or stuck because of whatever the situation is at that time. There was fear that happened could not be metabolized, so could not be released. We don't have to program [Reiki] to address this or does that. I might speak out in public about addressing trauma, but I will work the same way with someone who comes, whatever they present. I will speak to them and give back to them the same words they gave me so that we will be in oneness and communication, but my practice is going to be the same.

I've had mental health background work and worked with women's health. As a massage therapist, there are some layers of knowledge I have about the body, about emotions, and about energy and how it shows up in us. But if you are a beginner, you don't need to have that. You want to just be in yourself and be present with whom you are with. Be in compassion with what they bring you and share Reiki. We can feel it when there is a softening. We can feel when there's not a softening. We can feel when energy has begun to move. We can be aware of the energy that's not moving. We can comfortably stay in that place and know that we are addressing whatever is being asked to be addressed without worry. And if we're interested in trauma, then there are books that we can read. There are beautiful works out there now that talk about trauma in ways that anyone can understand. We can inform ourselves that way, but it's not necessary. My belief is that we're Reiki, and we show up with Reiki. Reiki has its own intelligence, and it will do what it is here to do.

DIR: I love that: just place your hands. It's that simple. No need to analyze which chakra is off balance or to release specific trauma.  I feel we make it more complicated because we're afraid that just simple protocols are never enough.
IF: That has been a beautiful challenge, I believe, for Reiki practitioners and teachers throughout my experience with Reiki. Because of the simplicity and because we don't have to know a lot, we often feel that we are not doing enough, we're not giving enough, and we are not contributing enough. And nothing could be farther from the truth. Reiki is so profound and strong and powerful. We are contributing, and we don't have to know what has happened. We know we are one with our true selves as we sit with a person and surrender all that we are into the present moment in time. And share from our hearts and our hands. And know that as we continue and grow to own personal practices, Nathalie, we will know without a doubt, without having to have feedback, we will know that we're enough. We have given enough. And it's all good.

DIR: I always tell my students, "Keep practicing, because one day it switches, and you know it's enough." It doesn't take two weeks. For some people, it comes very fast; for others, like me, it may take years. Now I'm going to ask you another question that I ask everybody: what your biggest Reiki oops was, something that could be labeled as a "mistake" but gave you significant learning or insight into your practice. 
IF: That's a great question. For real, there are no mistakes, [But before] I was of the consciousness early on in my practice of "not enough." As massage therapists… we are moving, touching, and shaking, and whatever. And then you come to share Reiki. In the beginning, it's like, "Okay, how am I going to make sure this person feels that they have received?" I wanted to make sure they felt that they received something from me just as they felt when I gave them a massage.

It took quite a while for me to get out of my head and accept that I am one with Reiki. I am sharing Reiki, and I don't have to do Reiki. I don't have to force Reiki. I don't have to expect a certain outcome of experience from the person I shared it with. So yeah, that took a while. And I can't say to you when it shifted. I'm feeling that for that particular challenge, my practice was to continue to come in, continue to be present, and to sit as opposed to giving and doing.

I'm a big giver. That's another part of my learning: [to stop] the overboard of giving. In a lot of ways in my Reiki practice, even giving more time than was necessary. Giving more just because I wanted those people to have a certain experience.

Since meeting Frans and since really growing in my own daily practices of sitting and being present, being still, of the breathwork—all of that has shifted things enormously in the last two years. So, [I focus] my personal practice of being Reiki, being Reiki, being Reiki—and all these other pieces [or need to give more] will not be necessary. They will not even be a part of our consciousness of thoughts.

DIR: I think, honestly, this is the best advice because probably 99% of practitioners struggle exactly with that, especially when they start charging. The way I dealt with it was to do my homework every day, and I go to the session having done so, then it made it easier to let go of worry during the session. It was like, "Okay, I can only control what I can control, which is my self-practice. And if I do my self-practice and I go from a state of mind of love and compassion, all will be fine."
IF: Exactly. And those of us who practice, we get exactly what you're saying. One of the things that also shifted with me since studying and meditating with Frans and all my reading [was that he pointed to] the practice of oneness, of no separation.

Before I knew that, I got that. But in the last two years and being with COVID for a whole year really shifted [the practice for me.] The practice of there is only one of us here. There is no separation. There is no distance. There is no time. And so, this has informed my practice with people, particularly distance healing, which I never did much of before, because there were so many people in my world that I shared Reiki in person. But because of the pandemic, the distance healing requests grew.

My love of distance healing now has just expanded. The capacity to practice "no distance, no separation, no time" has given me so much joy. And [although I didn't need the feedback] everyone has shared with me that the experience of the receiver has been profound coming from that place of me sitting in that place of no distance, no separation, no time. And in my own daily practice, strengthening and supporting that. I'm in love with that. I'm in love with oneness.

DIR: I love how you still have so much joy in your practice after so many years!
IF: As I'm sitting in this space with you, I'm just realizing that [before] I was a doula, a massage therapist, a Reiki master teacher practitioner… I was doing all of that at one time. Depending on how many births I had a month, it determined how many clients I could take for Reiki. Now it's all Reiki. I do nothing else, except when folks invite me to present on some larger platforms, but [even then] Reiki is underneath it all. I might be talking about healing or birthing, but for me, Reiki is under all of it. I love this shift now. It's nothing but Reiki for me now.

I only am teaching all the time, and I share Reiki, not as much but somewhat, with folks in person and a lot at distance sessions. I mentor people who call and want to talk [about] their growth and transformation. I usually combine the hour with some distance healing Reiki too. As you spoke, Nathalie, that just dawned on me that this is all I'm doing right now. My whole life has shifted. And I am writing a book on Reiki, and one day that will complete my personal offering to the world.

DIR: I'm the first person to buy that book! Since you and Frans love each other so much, he has kindly agreed to join the conversation.
FRANS STIENE: For me, [Ifetayo], you really are my role model. I will be 55 this year, and I think, "Wow, at your age, you're still teaching, you're still are…in the zest of life, you still enjoy life so much… the beauty of life, the playfulness and laughter of life. You still have so much passion… not just for the system of Reiki, but for life itself.

That, for me, is what the system of Reiki is really. As you were discussing, we don't need to add anything to it. We don't need to invent a new system. We need to actually realize that simplicity [is powerful] and owning that simplicity. That the beauty of life can really be tasted and felt.

 IF: Absolutely, totally. I love it. And I agree so much with you. And that's what love [being] friends. We just laugh all the time. We [are] playful, and that's for me is life. And that is Reiki. That is the energy of healing, love, and joy.

DIR: Now I have a new goal. I want to like to practice with both of you together in the city! Ifetayo, before we end this interview, I want to ask if there is anything that I missed that you want to add?
IF:  I must just share that for Reiki practitioners to find a meditation practice [is] crucial—it is so necessary for our support to support ourselves and our own health as we practice and teach. Meditate, breathe, meditate. Those are the magic words.

Helene Williams is a registered nurse and Reiki master/teacher based in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. She has over ten years of experience providing Reiki sessions in a hospital setting and has a well-established private practice. Helene has presented information on Reiki and holistic health care at two national nursing conferences, participated in a hospital-based Reiki research study, implemented and facilitated a hospital Reiki Volunteer Program and in 2013 established the Lancaster Community Reiki Clinic. She also has experience providing Reiki for Caring Hospice Services and actively volunteers at the VA Medical Center in Lebanon, PA. Helene is passionate about educating health care organizations about the many benefits of Reiki for patients, families and staff.

DIVE INTO REIKI (DIR): Hi! Welcome to the first edition of the new video interview series of "Dive Into Reiki With…" Tonight. For the first episode, we have a very special guest, Helen Williams. Helene, welcome. Thank you so much for joining.
HELENE WILLIAMS (HW): Thank you so much for having me!

DIR: I'm just going to give a little bit of your bio, so people know your background. Helene is a registered nurse and Reiki Master Teacher based in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. She has over 10 years of experience providing Reiki sessions in hospital settings and has a well established private practice. She has presented information on Reiki and Holistic Health Care at two National nursing Conferences, participated in a based hospital Reiki research study, implemented and facilitated a hospital Reiki volunteer program and in 2013 established the Lancaster community Reiki Clinic. She also has experience providing Reiki for caring in Hospice Services and actively volunteers at the VA Mental Center in Lebanon, Pennsylvania. Helene is passionate about educating health care organizations about the many benefits of Reiki for patients, families, and staff. We met at a retreat when our mentor Frans Stiene two, three years ago? And also last year in a wonderful retreat, last year in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. She has many, many surprises, and she is just an amazing human being, so welcome, and thank you so much.
HW: Thanks, Nathalie. I am super excited to be discussing Reiki healthcare and whatever else you decide to ask!

DIR: Actually, I am going to start with the first time we encountered Reiki. I think, you know, it is great for us. We all find Reiki differently: through Google, friends... What was your first contact with Reiki practice?
HW: So actually, I'm not even sure it was Reiki. My husband and I used to have a farm, and we had a little pygmy goat. It wasn't so little. He was a smaller goat. And he got stepped on by one of our horses, and we still had phone books. I was looking into the phone book for somebody, a veterinarian who might be able to look at the goat and see what he could do for this little foot because he was limping. I contacted this vet, who I had never heard of before. He looked at the goat. The little goat's name was Elvis. And he said, "This is what I want you to do: every day, I want you to take your hands, and I just want you to think about loving energy and let it flow." At the time, I thought it was a little crazy because I had never heard any kind of energy healing—Reiki or anything else for that matter. So I did it, and [the goat] got better, and then I forgot about it. When I started working at Lancaster General in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, my manager wanted us t learn how to do Reiki. Then I was like, "Oh, OK!" That kind of reminded me of this goat experience, and it clicked; things connected. That was my first experience with energy healing; just I was not sure it was Reiki. Reiki itself, I learned at the Hospital within like three months of starting there, so I was really, really lucky.

DIR: Yeah, there is goat yoga; we should have goat Reiki! You trained a lot. So I would love to talk a little bit about your journey, trying to find that thing that really resonated with you when it came to learning Reiki versus just taking a workshop.
HW: Right, after I learned the first level at the Hospital...Because I kind of connected with it, I was encouraged to jump to level 2 and [then] level 3, so I could teach Reiki at the hospital. For some reason, I couldn't find the teacher that taught at the hospital, so I googled Reiki and, at that time, they weren't a whole lot of people, but there was one who was close to me. So I went to her. She's a great teacher, but it was much more of a very Westernized form of Reiki. I did it, and it was wonderful, but I still felt something was missing for me. I started going to different classes. I learned Karuna Reiki, but I still felt there was this missing link for me. And it was really hard for me to teach the Western form that I have learned in a hospital setting. I needed something that was more practitioner based so that it could be a self-care practice as well. And although I knew about self-Reiki, it wasn't really emphasized as much as I know it needs to be now.
Then I found out about a teacher who was probably two hours away from me. Somebody told me, "Helene, you need to take this Reiki class." And I was, "Really, I took so many, what else can I learn?" It was actually one of Frans Stiene's students, and after the first day, I was like, "This is exactly what I needed." And it is, of course, a much more traditional form, where it's focused on the practitioner, mostly, doing their own work. That is kind of my journey. And that journey was probably five or six years.

Helene Williams.

DIR: Yeah, I loved when you told me you went to Sedona how many times for the trainings?
HW: Too many to count, and they were great trainings. It wasn't that there were not good trainings, they were excellent. It's just that, for some reason, I wasn't connecting with the way I really felt like I needed to when I started...really delving into my spiritual practice. I was really glad that I was able to keep going. To find something that I really connected with and blended so well with teaching in healthcare.

DIR: And I love that you still were so convinced there was something more, right? So you kept trying to go deeper, and I think that's the beauty of different lineages: we can all connect. Sometimes it's hard to find the teacher and the lineage that we need to really practice the way we feel is right for us. I am so glad you found the teacher!
HW: Yeah, you know, I always tell my students that too: "I am glad that you are here, and I am glad you are loving this class, but if you feel you need to add something in or if something is missing, then go and take another class from another teacher." I think that's really important, that we like, as teachers, we open that up and say, "Whatever feels right for you."

DIR: Absolutely and continuing education. I think that is so, so important as well, versus just training for eight hours … So, that means you practice like Japanese -style traditional Reiki. Will you define it that way, right?
HW: Yes, correct. Just that is more of a set of elements for spiritual development for myself—it includes the meditations, the hands-on practice, working with the precepts... Because to really hold that space for others, we have to do our own work first, and there is lots of work to do. I have 63 years of work to do! [Laughs.] So, the more we delve into ourselves, the more we can really hold that space for others.

DIR: When I took my first three classes—three to four classes—I basically wasn't even taught a self-care protocol, like the hand positions on the self. Sometimes, in our wish to help others, we forget that the base is us, and I think you also as a nurse you're already giving so much; if you don't have a self-care routine, you can risk burnout. And we will talk about that later. So tell me, what is your daily self-practice?
HW: Definitely, meditation. Meditation, for me, didn't come easily. It's taken a really long time to do that because I am a type-A; I am a nurse. We're always overachievers and tons of things to do, and we are always in our heads. So, it took me a long time to develop my meditation practice, but that's a really important component of my daily care now. So, meditation every morning, a lot of times in the evenings as well, and then I focus on the precepts. And that's something… that was missing from my earlier trainings as well. [Although they said] these were the precepts, it wasn't kind of pulling them apart and saying, "Oh, I got really angry today, let's pull that apart and see inside what's going on with that anger or where is all this worry coming from today." For me, the precepts are the foundation of the practice of Reiki. We have to try to really be the precepts, really embrace the precepts in all that we do, because that's what is all about—it's about healing our minds, right? Stress causes illnesses. So, the more that we can reduce stress with meditation and working with the precepts in meditation, the more we can heal our minds so that our bodies can be healthy and whole, as well. And then hands-on practice as well, of course. And I usually do that in bed in the morning.

DIR: Nice; when it comes to hands-on healing, I do it sitting because when I do it in bed, I fall asleep. I loved what you said about the precepts. A lot of times, I feel like the precepts have become like an Instagram meme, right? We post them, or we have them in pretty posters, but there is little teaching about how the precepts are guiding your hands-on healing, right? Don't worry about where to place your hands exactly, don't bring your anger, be grateful that you're sharing this space with someone, be compassionate. Or how they guide your meditation: "Why am I getting angry? What are my triggers? They should guide everything we do in Reiki and should be a guide for life. I love that, for you, they have made such a difference. You said meditation is challenging for you. What's the difference that you felt when you started integrating meditating with the precepts in your practice versus just focusing on others' care and not meditating as much.
HW: I don't go through a day without some kind of worry, right? I can sit with that now and really pull that apart. Not go down the route so much of stories, not that they still don't happen—the stories that I make up or things that I worry about or things that are going to happen. But when I sit in meditation with the precepts, I can sit and say, "OK, what is the story that you are following now? Is this realistic?" And then just sitting with it, not judging the story so much but just observing and realizing that it's a story. Then I can go back to my breath and my meditation, using the Joshin Kokyu Ho breathing, focusing my mind on the breath. It's like that with everything. And some days, I'm in my meditation, and I just feel grateful. Then I use gratitude, that Reiki precept of just sitting in gratitude and feeling wonderful. And of course, being kind, being compassionate, all those things, but you know, it's the first two that always trip us up: the anger and the worry.

 DIR: Yeah, those, and #fakegratitude in my case. "Am I grateful? No, I am not." I always check with my body to know. I would love for you to give some tips for people to deep into their practice. A lot of us we experience that: =we go to training, Reiki 1: eight hours; Reiki II: eight hours... I now some trainings, like the Open Center in New York and others are longer, but the average training is eight hours per level and then Masters, with luck three days. For Reiki 1 and 2 practitioners mainly, can you give some tips to deepen their practice? Three easy things they could do to really improve their energy flow, for example. 
HW: I was one of those people who did level 1, level 2, and level 3 in three days—and I did it a couple of times! I think that's why I kept searching for something else... If you are taking a Level 1 class, they talk about the 21 days of practicing. That's great as a jump start, but you have to continue after 21 days. Everything is not all rosy after 21 days; you have to keep doing the practice. So, encouraging meditation, and if meditation is hard for you, there is a lot of tools on the internet that can be really helpful. If you only want to meditate for two minutes, that is fine. Or, if you want to sit quietly and you are struggling, you can reach out to your Reiki teacher or a meditation teacher. Meditation, for me, is an essential element after a Reiki I class. And sitting with your feelings after the Reiki class and journaling about them. What's come up for you? Have things shifted within you? Sometimes things get stirred up, right? Sometimes we get angry about things afterward because something has changed and shifted within us. So self-reflection, I would say, would be the second thing. And a third thing, out of four, is just your hands-on healing, of course, and the precepts, just don't forget the precepts. I think Frans [Stiene] says the too: the precepts are the foundation and the outcome of the system of Reiki. It's everything that we need to really bring those elements into our daily lives. So that when we have, like somebody gets mad at us, we don't have the knee reaction...like we typically do. We can be thoughtful and mindful about it if we are working with the precepts and being compassionate to ourselves and others.

DIR: I think that is such a beautiful thing you said. A lot of times, when I get students, like, "I want to do Reiki full time, but I need to pay my bills." I tell them that we can do or be Reiki full time. We can do our jobs and be compassionate, be kind, be grateful, not worry other people, not be angry with other people. Then we are actually changing the world even further. Not all of us can live for Reiki practice, but we can Reiki into our lives 24/7 no matter what we do. So what just so said I think it is so beautiful and so crucial.
HW: Yeah, that's so important, too. When I was still working at the hospital, a lot of times, my coworkers would call me into a room where there were angry people. If something went wrong in somebody's care, or somebody was not happy with something that happened, they would say, "Hey, Helene, can you go into that room and do your thing?" I wasn't doing a hands-on session; it was just going on and being present, allowing all that energy to flow, allowing that loving compassion to flow… So, I was not always doing hands-on Reiki. It's doing the work on yourself, so you can go into this kind of situation and… and just be able to be a calming presence. And what a difference can make for people when you are just present and allowing that beautiful energy to flow.

DIR: I love that. We are going to take you all over the country and share your calming presence! Especially here in New York!
HW: It's not that it isn't challenging at times, that's for sure, but usually, a lot of times, it was amazing to watch how quickly the de-escalation can happen when you are just being in a space of loving compassion. People can feel that energy.

DIR: Imagine if most of us would do that, right, like I have a beautiful Reiki 3 student, and she told me, "I didn't expect my life would be so hard after the Reiki Master, right?" And I told her, "Listen, life still is going to have a lot of crap, but you are going to walk on the crap with calm and poise." You know you're going to be able to deal with it. Life is not going to be perfect or magical because you are a Reiki practitioner or a teacher. Still, you are going to be able to make it a lot better and improve the lives of others by just being centered, calm, and grounded. Allowing that compassion to go through. So, I love that you're not very focused on the hands.
HW: Yeah, yeah… absolutely, and I think that's a piece also for me that I was searching for: more about a grounding practice. I just needed something stronger to be more grounded because I suffer from anxiety a lot; I've come a huge way from where I was before. Sometimes it's still a challenge, but I think with the meditation practice. The way that I've been taught now, being grounded is such an important piece going into our daily lives, not only into Reiki sessions for others but also for just walking out into the world.

DIR: What would you say is the biggest gift Reiki practice has given you over the years?
HW: I'd said the meditation piece. As hard as it was for me, I think that was a key element. You know, we have to learn to quiet our minds a little bit. It is hard nowadays because of computers, cell phones, and social media. Our minds can't stay focused for more than ten seconds because we are so stimulated. So, I think the meditation practice is really an important piece to be really well-grounded and creating some space in our minds so we can go out in the world and be better.

DIR: I want this series of interviews to be very human. Obviously, we're amazing practitioners, teachers; we have an amazing practice... But I also want to talk a little bit about the biggest "oops" and the mistakes we have made. Ironically I have learned more from my biggest mistakes than from my good, calm meditation. I was wondering if you would mind being vulnerable and sharing one of your biggest Reiki "oops"?
HW: I don't know if it was an "oops," but it was kind of the way that I went about things when I first started doing Reiki at the hospital. I had no clue, there was no real precedent for me to follow, so I kind of had to find my way. The first time—actually it was the second time—because the first patient that I ever did Reiki for, he was just in so much pain, it didn't matter, he was like, "Whatever it is, I want it." And it did help him a lot. But the second patient that I went in to see, you know, I just knocked on the door, said, "Hey, I am Helene, I do something called Reiki, would you like to try a session?" And she said, "Well, tell me what it is?" And I came out with the standard "it's universal life force energy" explanation. She just kind of looked at me like I had three hats and said, "No, thank you. I don't think I want anything like that". It was for me learning how to be thoughtful about how I explain Reiki. I think it is so individualized, because you go and chat we people first, and kind of see where they are coming from, and then tailor your definition to the understanding they might have already, because now Reiki is more well known that when I first started, so it makes it a little be easier.

 DIR: I love what you said, because I think a lot of us when we start being practitioners, we go like, "Do you know Reiki? Reiki is blablablabla," and we give a whole speech. What you are saying is listen and then explain, and check if they know or not about Reiki or not, what their perception is. That is such a great tip for practitioners in general. 
HW: Some people knew there was a program there, so they would Google something before I came in. That was not always a great thing because sometimes you can Google and get good information and maybe not so great information. So it would be like, "Oh, it's this, and this, and this," and I would like, "Well, you're on the right track." But how can we explain it in a better way, so there is more understanding?

DIR: I think it's really great we can frame it in the healthcare world; how would you explain it now? Imagine that I am not Nathalie, I am a person not close-minded, but I do not have very much idea of Reiki, and I am probably in pain, on a bed. How would you approach me right now? Maybe we can do a little bit of role-playing. 
HW: Yeah, absolutely. So, I knock on the door, ask you how are you doing, if I can talk to you for a few minutes and… Is your name still Nathalie?

DIR: Yes, but I do not have an accent! [Laughs.]
HW: OK. So, I'm a Reiki practitioner, and I share Reiki with patients at the hospital. I was wondering if you would be interested in a session today, but before we even go down that road, I would like to know if you ever heard of Reiki…

DIR: I've heard of Reiki, some people say it's like a massage with no hands, and then other people say that you just put the hands and the pain goes away, but I really don't understand how it works.
HW: Well, Reiki can be done with hands-on or hands-off, so that piece is definitely correct, but it's really about the practitioner just moving in a space of quiet, peaceful energy and allowing that energy to flow to you, where you need it. Sometimes it's a little hard to understand, but it's more experiential. What I would like to do is do a short session for you, maybe just for five minutes of being quiet, maybe turning down the lights a little bit if you are OK with that. If you want to, we can play some quiet music and just allowing you to experience this loving energy. Then we can talk a little bit more about it afterward, about what your experience was with it. And if you feel you connected a little bit, we can do a longer session.

DIR: I love that because it's so hard to explain Reiki; it's great to use their experience and then using their own words to guide them. I think that is brilliant, and I am stealing that from you, like so badly. 
When in healthcare, there are a set of rules; it's different from your personal practice. So, what would you say are the main differences in terms of bringing a practice that maybe is more Western or uses more symbols into a hospital or a healthcare environment, whatever that is.

HW: Yeah, to keep it as simple as possible. When you go into a hospital, you can't practice anything in a hospital unless there is research to support it. We can talk about it later, maybe, but that is an important element. Still, as far as going in and starting a program, you need to know that hospitals, of course, have policies and procedures, so it's not as easy as always just going in and say, "I want to do Reiki." There has to be a protocol. There has to be usually a mentorship, so people who have never been in a hospital before, know what to expect in that kind of setting because sometimes it is a little shocking for practitioners to go in, who aren't used to people suffering or seeing blood or things like urine, people throwing up, right? There are all these surprises that you don't expect because you just want to go in and help people not be in pain, and things like that. But you have to know that it has to be done in a structured way. So when we started our Reiki volunteer program, we created a manual of structured hands positions for the hospital setting so that it was a protocol, pretty much, because it kind of had to be that way in order to pass all the powers that be. The hand positions were pretty much around the head, the arms, the knees, and the feet because you have to remember that people had surgery. If they might have had surgery in their abdomen, we don't want to touch them on their abdomen. You want to be very careful in talking to the patient: "This is where you can expect my hands to be placed. Is that OK with you?" Just like I do in my private practice as well. Just so there are no surprises for the patient, but there are a lot of steps to get to before you get to even the patient part. There are things as simple as knowing how to put a hospital bed up and down safely because that is an important safety thing in hospitals: preventing falls. If you put a hospital bed up and you leave with the bed up, and the patient gets out of bed and falls, that's not good. There are a lot of things you have to think about going into that kind of setting that is definitely more structured. Not that it can be an intuitive session at all, where maybe you aren't quite following the hand positions—we just want to have a roadmap, basically, [with a] protocol and the way we speak about it. There is a lot that goes into it.

DIR: There is a couple of things that I think are really important: uniformity is for people just to feel safe; it's not about limiting your practice. [To create] a sense of safety, because you have, first of all, patients from systems, people who do not believe in anything, so you want to make it very simple and paired down. The other thing I like is when you say it can be intuitive, but you have to follow [the protocol]. Sometimes we perceive intuitive Reiki as being better than just hand-on positions. If, as a practitioner, you're in a place of compassion, your energy flows free. What seems limiting can also be an opportunity to grow as a practitioner. If you have to do six hands positions, make sure you do them with all your energy at it doesn't limit you because you can't do the practice as you want to. So, I think limitations imply an attitude of "how can I grow as a practitioner" versus complaining. I was hearing a lot of people starting the programs that are already established, and for them to follow the protocol—some programs they just hover, some use only touch—is difficult because it's different from the way they\ practice, but I would love for them to understand how important it is to create uniformity and protocols for the hospitals to feel safe for the patients, right?
HW: Rights, the hospital needs to know that things are structured because that is how it works. It's a part of a hospital environment. You're so right about being present for the patient. Sometimes we think that "If I don't have my hands at a certain place, the energy is not going to flow," but it always does. We set an intention, too. I also talk to patients about intention because a lot of older people don't really understand what that means. So, we talk about that a little bit too before the session—setting an intention because that's what Reiki should be doing in that kind of setting: empowering the patient to work on their own healing process. That's what Reiki is helping with, self-empowerment.

DIR: That is amazing. Honestly, I am taking that tip up because I always say, "Set your intention to receive healing," and I never considered someone may not understand it. I think what you're saying is very valuable: let's not assume they know our Reiki language. To take a step back and make it very approachable for them. 
HW: Yeah, and I think the whole part about being present. We have to be present so that we can make sure that we're communicating clearly. That's a really important piece in that setting. That we have really clear communication. And I have been in settings already where I go to a patient's room, and I've said, "I think you signed up for a Reiki session. Would you like it? And somebody got really angry and said, "No, we absolutely don't want it." Then I have to ask why. It's because they've had a bad experience at another healthcare facility where a practitioner had come in and not even talked to the patient and was drawing the symbols over the patient. The family was sitting there, and they had no understanding of what was happening. It was really scary for them. So, I think we need to be very clear in our communication when we try to explain what Reiki is and how we do it. And so, just being present is really important. When I talked to that family, I said, "Can you tell me why?" And they, of course, told me the story, and then I was able to re-educate them, and they were OK with the session then.

DIR: Oh, that is beautiful. I am hearing that we have to put patients first and listen to them first rather than put our practice first. In the end, we have to ask ourselves, is it an ego thing? We really need to take that step back and put their wellbeing front and center. 
I know you have been trying to elevate the standard about how we train for healthcare—if I'm a nurse. I want to bring Reiki to a hospital, what can I do to make sure I am getting a real good practice. Also, what steps should I take not to burn out? 
HW: I think researching is good. I get people that call me and interview me to ask about my experience, and I think that's really important. I think that's really important to do with any Reiki practitioner. If you're going to take a class from somebody, call them up and say, "What's your practice like? How do you teach?" Make sure you're connecting with somebody who may have had some experience doing Reiki in healthcare settings. Ask them what kind of practice they are doing, if it's a structured practice. There was a practitioner—I'm not exactly sure where it was—they were doing tarot card readings before the Reiki sessions in the hospital, and that's not a typical standard of practice. Asking a lot of questions about how the person practices, and make sure that they have some experience in healthcare. And there are people out there who are doing it. Just make sure that there is some kind of protocol that is followed. What was the second question? I am sorry, Nathalie…

 DIR: My bad, I'm being a bad interviewer. Because also, some teachers like you give a credit that is also valid for nurses, right? For example, I'm not qualified for that—I just can train in regular Reiki. If you are a nurse and want to practice in hospitals, your teacher should be someone [who can give you credit and be a nurse.] Can you talk a little about the credit? 
HW: Every two years—at least in Pennsylvania—nurses have to have 30 hours of continuing education credits. So, it's a great way for nurses who want a self-care practice and also get their contract hours in for their state licensure. I applied through the American Holistic Nursing Association for my continuing education credits. And it's definitely a process. It's a lot of paperwork to fill out but helps you to really define your programming as far as teaching. So, I have a Reiki I for health providers Reiki Class. That's a two-day class and has 12 continuing education credits. So when you apply for that type of thing, you have to also, for nursing anyway, you have to have a nurse planner, so I had to contract with a friend of mine who does that so she could be part of that process. It's a requirement because they want it to be very educational and solid. That's why I think traditional Reiki practices are also great for healthcare because it's all about focusing on the precepts, it's all about meditation, it's all about taking care of yourself with hands-on practice. So it's very easy to teach. Not that you don't get the application returned three or four times with little tweaks, but it's relatively easy to get something like that approved for continuing education hours.

DIR: I love a couple of things about what you said: a solid practice and a solid understanding of the practice. But also, if you are a nurse and you are going to be offering Reiki in hospitals on top of your nursing job, if you don't have solid self-care, burnout is going to happen. And I don't know if you have any experience with burnout or any experience with burnout, and what advice can you give them?\
HW: Yeah, burnout, [even] before COVID, it was a real problem. Of course, it really is now again. I think that's one of the reasons I am really a proponent of teaching Reiki in hospitals because the staff needs a structured self-care program that they can do for themselves every day. So definitely Reiki, if you can take Reiki classes on your own or whatever [healthcare] setting [you're working at], it's just a really great self-care practice. 
The other thing is setting boundaries. It's an important piece of avoiding burn out. Not only for RNs [registered nurses] but also for Reiki practitioners because innately we want to hear people's stories and people like to share their stories, but we also have to be mindful of respecting… people's time and our time. Being able to set boundaries, which was a really hard thing for me to do because I am a hand holder; I worked for hospice for five years, so I like to sit and listen, but you need to remember that you need to take care of yourself. Setting boundaries is a really important piece. Also, self-reflection and journaling are an important piece too of avoiding burnout. Or working through burnout if you are feeling like you're getting there. Reflecting on your Reiki practice and what you need to do in order to really care for yourself. It's really always about filling your cup first. People in the healthcare industry are such givers; they just want to give and give until it is too late and you're tired, you're burnout, and you're angry, and you don't want to do it anymore. But the same thing could happen with Reiki practitioners if we go to a hospital and volunteer for a two-hour shift of sharing Reiki with the patients, and we end up only seeing two because we are a little too involved and not able to set boundaries. So that's really important. Not taking on people's things. It's part of boundary settings, of course, and doing your self-practice as a practitioner. Just recognizing that we need that self-care piece and sometimes knowing that it's OK to walk away and say, "No, I can't do this tonight," or whenever it is you are going in. Saying. "I'm really feeling depleted today, and I don't think I can be the best I can if I need to go in and do Reiki at the hospital this evening, so I'm going to take some time for myself tonight, refresh myself and then go back next week or whenever.

 DIR: That takes guts and being brave and brutally honest, and I see that's also not the usual woo-woo perception of Reiki. We see Reiki as very angelic, and we think of practitioners as angels always saying yes. Reiki should be more human, and part of being balanced humans, as you said, is accepting that it's OK if we can't do it. We have to be responsible with ourselves first and then others. To communicate it and then set boundaries. 
HW: We are human beings, right? Whether we are Reiki 1 practitioners or Reiki masters is all the same thing. We still have times that we experience a lot of stress in our lives. It's kind of pulling back and saying, you know, I'm not feeling great today, so I'm going to take a break. Just recognizing that within yourself. Because when you push and push and push, you just get burnout, and you don't want to do it anymore.

 DIR: I think there are a couple of great things for what you said, we always… we hear it from Frans [Stiene], and we hear it from Japanese monks, "If you don't have tea, you cannot serve tea." Sometimes, when we feel bad about doing that, we have to remember we can't really serve tea if we do not have it. And I think it's that again being human. We take an eight-hour class, and we forget the word practice. I am a Reiki 1. No, you are practicing Reiki 1. It's an ongoing thing, and some days are going to be hard, some days are going to be good; that is part of the practice. It's not that we get an attunement, and we are magically a Reiki 1 person who is going to behave at a higher level of consciousness. That's a little bit of a fantasy. It's beautiful, but it's not helping us to really understand Reiki as a practice. That Reiki is sitting on your bum and embracing all your feelings, as you said at the beginning, going back to the precepts. Am I angry? Let me deal with it. Not, "I should not feel angry because I am a Reiki attunement." I see healthcare can make Reiki even more human—the need for being human and down to earth is even more important in that framework.
HW: Yeah, definitely. While the attunement is a wonderful spiritual blessing, you know, it doesn't mean we don't have to do our practices. We have to do our practice...keeps going for your entire lifetime; it's part of the whole journey. Reflecting on the It journey, where you were and where you are, it's just so important. Recognizing when you are not feeling good, your worry and anger are coming in and taking the time to work on yourself. Because you are going to be so much better for everyone else if you, instead of pushing yourself constantly and trying to be this person that maybe thinks that needs to be up here, but we are all the same… me and you going through this journey trying to find the right way and in a peaceful place.

DIR: I am going to open the chat to questions. Meanwhile, I wanted to point out that you have hundreds of hours of experience, but you still do continuing training. I would love it if you talk a little about what you do to keep going deeper into your practice.
HW: I go to Reiki retreats. I do online things a lot since this is a great time [to do so]. Not necessarily Reiki classes, but delving deeper into your own practice, meditation work, and things like that... For me, it's ongoing education, and I think that's just so important. I've heard of people who took one Reiki class, and they are Reiki Master. They haven't taken a class for 20 or 30 years. There's been so much that's been learned about Reiki history and even, of course, delving deeper into your own spiritual practice that you can learn by going to more and more trainings. It's this endless journey, and the more we can have tools that we can connect with to go deep within, the better for the people that we live with, and the people we encounter every day, people that we work with, just for the whole world.

DIR: You and I go to the same retreats. Sometimes we hear the same things, but because our practice has moved one or two years, we understand it differently or understand different layers. Sometimes you can go to the same kind of trainings but because you are in a different place you get more subtleties. Sometimes it's not like having to do 300 different trainings but just …. Even like sharing time with people you have been practicing for years, sharing points of view, and those reflections you mentioned. That's why it's so important to have a community to share. Clare, she is a Patreon member, and she just commented, "I got my attunements and expected that it would bring many changes. I realize now that the practice is ongoing." She also asks, "Do you share your hospital protocol plan with other practitioners who would like to start a program in a healthcare setting?"
HW: I don't because every hospital program is going to be different. You're going to have to tailor it to a program of the hospital that you are working with …. I have a Reiki in Hospitals workshop that I do for Reiki practitioners that kind of gives you ideas on how to set that kind of thing up, but as far as the whole protocol...I can't share the protocol from a hospital because that's their information. [However,] I can give guidance on to that end. And again, I do that in a workshop that I do.

DIR: That makes sense because those protocols are confidential to every hospital, and at the end of this interview, I will give all of Helene's information so you can reach out to her, see her website and her volunteer clinic. Since I met Helene, I gravitated to her. We were 43 people in a room, and, among a bunch of calming presences, she was a big calming presence— loving and light. I was really grateful we were able to meet again and deepen that connection last year, but I really want to say how much I admire what you do and your work and how much effort you put into it, and also how grateful I am that you are sharing this [wisdom] with everyone. We don't talk a lot about Reiki in healthcare… we talk a lot about peace and love, but we do not talk about the details. Yet these make all the difference when we are going to take our practice into everyday life. One thing is a beautiful workshop, but when you get into hospitals, you need to apply your practice. So, I'm really, really grateful. 
HW: Thank you, everybody, for coming, for being here tonight. I am really grateful. I love talking about Reiki in healthcare, so Nathalie will share my information. If you have questions, please contact me. Thank you, Nathalie!

DIR: Thank you, Helene; I really appreciate you being my first guest!

You can find out more about Helene at: https://www.helenewilliamsreiki.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/helenewilliamsreiki

Insta: https://www.instagram.com/reikihelene/

Drawing inspired by Helene Williams and the idea of “self-compassion.”