DIVE INTO REIKI: I'm super excited to introduce my guest: Pamela Miles. Pamela is an internationally renowned Reiki master and the pioneer introducing Reiki practice to conventional medicine. She's collaborated with academic medical centers such as Harvard and Yale. She has been featured on The Dr. Oz Show, NBC, CBS, CNN, FOX, The Atlantic, US News & World Report, New York Magazine, Allure, and Self. Pamela is also the author of the award-winning REIKI: A Comprehensive Guide.

I went to Pamela's Reiki Clinic at the JCC in New York, and it really helped me find my footing when I first learned Western Reiki and was a bit lost.

PAMELA MILES: I always enjoyed having you [at the clinic]. I just want to clarify the term Western Reiki because I practice Western Reiki… it's not all "woo." I mean, my practice is not new-age at all. All of my Reiki masters were either trained by Hawayo Takata, or their Reiki masters were trained by Hawayo Takada. So, I learned the practice as Takata taught before Americans started, you know, making changes to it, which were mostly ad-ons—although they tried to make something simpler like you don't have to practice, which to me was the most fun part of it was actually practicing. 

DIR: I love that clarification: all Reiki is not the same. I love to hear your origin story. You're pretty unique compared to many beginner Reiki practitioners: you actually had a spiritual practice for years before you discovered Reiki. 
PM: That's so sweet for you to say I'm unique instead of odd. I like that spin on it, Nathalie. So yeah, by the time I came to Reiki practice in 1986, I already had been a student of meditation and yoga for almost 25 years. And I was a meditation teacher. I've lived in India in a monastery for a couple of years, doing really intensive spiritual practices, very serious practice. I was also a professional healer. I worked with people one-on-one doing what might now be called mind, body medicine, but back there was just odd. So unique is the word I'm going to stick with here. And the advantage that gave me was that I already had a daily spiritual practice. I understood that it's not enough to learn a practice; you learn a practice so that you can practice. And that the training that teaches you the practice, the teacher that teaches you the practice, you know, that's so special and you have at least regard if not reverence for that connection. But ultimately, if you don't practice, you're just tossing it out the window. To use marketing language, the practice is how you get that return on your investment. That's how you get your money's worth from your training. 

It always seemed odd to me that people finish one class, and they want to right away go to another class and get another certificate or whatever they get and go to another class. For me, I just couldn't wait to practice. I remember when I first learned to practice like I just couldn't wait till I had some time alone. [I did] my daily self-practice, my full protocol practice, first thing in the morning before I was out of bed. But then, during the day, I also wanted to practice. 

[…]

Compared to the effort involved in the other spiritual practices I had, this was very accessible. It was kind of fast and easy and fast and easy really aren't usually values of mine. But at the time that I experienced Reiki practice from a friend who had just taken the first-degree class, I had a five-year-old, and I was in early in my second pregnancy. So, I like to have spiritual practice every day. I just don't go a day without it. It's easier for me to fast or lose sleep. But I also remembered what it was like, when you give birth and in those early days, weeks, months, depending upon your baby. So, I was wondering how I was going to manage this. And then, I had an experience of Reiki from my friend. I quickly started to have the same inner experience and sensations that were very familiar to me because of all of my experience with spiritual practice, both at home and on retreat and such. Nothing that I experienced during my Reiki treatment was new to me other than the practice itself. This was a new way of becoming deeply indrawn and becoming more aware of my subtle being, my timelessness, and like that.

That gave me a very different perspective on the practice from the beginning. I could see this as a spiritual practice. Of course, we've come to know that. But it wasn't presented to me in that way or understood in the US in quite that way, with that language. From what I know, I think that Hawayo Takata did have that understanding. But she didn't put that language to it. And I'm sure she had very good reasons. You know, we all live in different times; we have to be ourselves of our time and carry the integrity of the practice. At least that's been a value for me. 

Pamela Miles.

DIR: No, absolutely. And as you said, we cannot really understand what it was to be her at that time. And she actually brought it here and spread it. But I think when you said, like, now we're coming to see it's a spiritual practice is still very new for many people watching this podcast. For most, it's still understood very much as an energy healing modality. But it goes a lot deeper. At the end of the meditation, you said something beautiful: bring it into your body and extend it into your life. This is so much more than just getting a session or doing your practice. It is about using it to transform your life. Can you talk a bit about the importance of the body in Reiki practice? 
PM: Well, the body is important because if we didn't have a body, we couldn't practice [she laughs].  

DIR: Yes, because sometimes we go into Lalaland with angels.
PM: People can practice in whatever way is meaningful to them, but the idea is not to disregard our bodies. The purpose of all spiritual practice is to be present and being present means being joyfully in our body. Because if we're not joyfully in our body, if we have discomfort with the body that we have, then we're not present. There's a part of us that's tied up with that, and that's worrying inside of us.

There's confusion or a lack of investigation into what spirituality is and what spiritual practice is in this culture. Many people have never thought of the difference between religion and spirituality. Or metaphysics and spirituality. We see that even more around Reiki practice, where people share their Reiki metaphysics. But if we ask people to see the world as we see it to practice Reiki, I think we're cutting out a lot of people who would otherwise really be interested in the experience and the benefits that Reiki practice brings. And the advantages it brings being uniquely accessible. I mean, it's just the easiest spiritual practice that I've come across. And I've been engaged in spiritual practices since I was a kid. There was a point at which I just said more than 50 years because that's enough.

Spiritual practice is to be present. To be able to live from our hearts. To keep our minds in good health too. I mean, a good intellect is important to discern and be a critical thinker. If you're engaged in anything around spirituality and you're not a critical thinker, you're going to fall for a lot of silly stuff. And you're going to be disappointed, especially if you don't have a daily practice because there are so many disappointments in life, right? I mean, this is something we're experiencing very acutely now with the pandemic and how long it's going on because people didn't think it would go on so long. They weren't quite seeing that this is a game-changer. This isn't a blip. And daily spiritual practice means that we step into our changes on a daily basis. So, we keep ourselves spiritually poised, settled in our bodies. And when something comes at us, we've got the resilience; we can roll with it. We can be creative. We don't forget who we are. We don't forget our timelessness. We don't forget our practice because our practice is the source of our resilience. 

DIR: I really admire people going through this without a spiritual practice. Before the pandemic was officially declared, you started a global practice group. Can you talk a bit about that? 
PM: Yeah. I had just come back. I had a few months with a lot of travel. I was in Europe, and then I was in Mexico, leading the Heart of Practice retreat. And then I was in Curaçao, and I was in Atlanta teaching, and I came back to New York, like March 1st, I think. I could see what was happening, you know? And I knew that people were going to be very frightened, and they were going to be isolated. I could see that we were going to wind up in some kind of a lockdown. Being frightened and being isolated is a devastating combination for your immune system. Either one of them compromises your immune function. And then those together can easily lead to depression, which further lessens people's immunity.

So, I was looking to see how I can support people in their self-practice and give them a sense of community. And since I'm kind of the queen of self-practice…

DIR: You were actually the first person who mentioned self-practice to me is like. I was like, "Am I supposed to have a self-practice? I didn't even know about that! 
PM: Well, I hear that from many, many people. That they've been through a class and either they were told to practice on themselves for 21 days, or it just never was even discussed. Whereas in my training, that's the core. You do a lot of self-practice. So, March 10th, I think, was the first one, the day before the world health organization declared the global pandemic. That was Tuesday at four, and then I added Saturday at 9:00 AM.  

Within, I don't know, six months or something, twenty-five thousand people had registered. And of course, not everybody registered and came back, but still, it was something that clearly was speaking to people. And the important idea for me was mixing care of self with community because everybody else wants to take care of other people, you know? And that's just more of maybe the thing that we need to change in this time. To change is our proclivity for looking outwards, like outwards for the Reiki energy as if it's something separate from us that we have to somehow trick into coming to us.

People say things like, I don't have my Reiki anymore. Well, do you practice? No. [Laughs] If we think of it asReiki practice instead of Reiki energy, it solves a lot of those problems. And also, we always know what's available to us, that accessibility and availability. It's so heartwarming because I get many, many emails from people who say, I've now been practicing every day for a month, for six months, for three weeks for—whatever is a landmark for them, something they never thought they could do. And they notice the difference. So the idea of healing the planet by healing ourselves and making that connection with the quote that we hear so often from Mahatma Gandhi, "be the change you want to see." Not fixing. And to get back to the idea of energy healing and practice: your energy healing is more along with the conventional medical fixing. Whereas spiritual practice reminds us of our intrinsic wholeness and wellness and lets all the disparate parts of ourselves come to rest in our spiritual self. Where we feel our core, and we remember who we are. And then mind, body, spirit, emotions, intellect, you know what, however, you want to name these different parts of ourselves that may be gremlins, they are all like, "Oh yeah!" They feel safe. And everybody behaves better when they feel safe. 

DIR: For me, one of the most significant gifts Reiki practice gave me was acceptance and compassion towards myself. Then by changing myself, I'm a lot kinder to my family and friends. So, as you said, the change starts inside, but it extends to affect people's lives. However, we tend to want to place our hands on other people and change them, so we like them more!
PM: And I think a lot of people feel that way. And, certainly, I've had my moments too. But compassion isn't for anyone. Compassion is a state; it's an attainment. And when we're willing to sit with ourselves and practice with ourselves, and we drop into our hearts, we experience the compassionate love that is our true nature. We feel it in ourselves because that's who we are first, but the way we are with other people is just a reflection of how we are with ourselves. Have you ever noticed that person who really pisses you off? If you're lucky, you'll catch yourself doing the thing that that person does that annoys you so much.

It's always just a reflection of how we feel about ourselves. So, as we feel unconditional self-love, even for a moment, it's a crack in the confusion. Then we just keep coming back to it, and we build a habit. This is another part of consistent daily self-practice that we're building a habit. We're building neural pathways. It's not just a good idea. You know, we're actually making it easier for us to take refuge in our center rather than refuge in our drama, which only creates more suffering. Life isn't always going to be easy. It certainly doesn't get easier when we start practicing, but we are more equipped. We're better equipped to be with the challenge because we feel safer. Feeling safe is a spiritual issue and spiritual attainment. Practice is the only way we can earn that experience and own it.

Otherwise, it's kind of like being on a diet where we're just having to say no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And we're not even sure that this is really going to work for us. But when we practice, especially practice self-Reiki, we experience pretty quickly that something good is happening. Our systems start to settle, and it happens on a discernible level in our nervous system. Wow. That's a big deal and a big difference. 

DIR: I love that you have a science and medical background. I love to now know that a part of my brain is actually changing.

I will use this to segue because you were vital in bringing Reiki to mainstream healthcare. You did fantastic work, and part of it is that you have a very down-to-earth approach and know the science behind it. How did you just wake up one day and say, "Hey, I need to bring this to healthcare?"
PM: I never said that! [Laughs]. [If I had], no one would have listened because I don't have a medical background. I mean, I did original research as an undergraduate. I have a couple of undergraduate degrees, so I've always had an interest. And my mother is a nurse, my sister, my grandmother, you know, so medicine has always been in my background. But I think that what gave me a unique qualification and, and I kind of started medical Reiki, was this marriage of spiritual practice and scientific intellect. And a desire to serve. I was invited to create the first hospital program because I was doing community service at gay men's health crisis here in New York City, offering Reiki training. At that point, it was still all guys with HIV aids. This was before the protest inhibitors and the drugs that have been developed that have really helped people be able to live with HIV Aids.

I mean, then it was really a death sentence, and everybody knew it. So, I started teaching people to practice on themselves and the doctors in infectious disease—that's what the Aids specialists were called—noticed that whenever they had a patient who was doing better than expected… invariably they talked about Reiki practice, and usually they were students of mine. So, the department head at what was then Beth Israel Medical Center, which is now, I think Mount Sinai Beth Israel, was a very forward-thinking interested in integrative medicine and understood that even if we couldn't cure a disease, we could at least still help people. That's why I was asked to come in and present. It was my first medical presentation. My knees were knocking because I knew it would be easy to lose this opportunity. I knew it would be easy to step in the wrong direction, but I just kept my mouth closed. And when I was asked a question, I didn't try to pontificate; I answered the question briefly because I know doctors are very busy. I always tried to answer the question in a way that would make sense to them without compromising the reality of what I was offering. I've always spoken of Reiki as a spiritual practice because, by then, I was a Reiki master. So everything else came out of that. 

In fact, there were a lot of people in conventional medicine who were very interested in what else could be done. At first, it surprised me, but then when I thought about it, well, yeah, these people see so much suffering that they can't help, even now that they can do more in terms of the fixing part. It's almost as if suffering itself is not a medical issue. Again, like safety, it's a spiritual issue. Doctors may help you with your pain, but suffering is a spiritual concern. 

DIR: I love how you put it because you also give Reiki a role that feels very safe and useful in the healthcare environment. Sometimes we communicate Reiki in a way that could feel dangerous to doctors. 
PM: Yeah. I mean, that's such an important point that you're bringing up, Nathalie. That is the communication piece. I've been a writer since I was a kid. So, I've always been thinking about communicating not just what do I want to say, but how can I say it? Not just writing as self-expression, but writing to communicate. And that made a big difference in being able to bridge cultures. And when it came to medical Reiki, the practice itself is the same that I practice everywhere, but the culture is different. I was bridging spiritual practice culture with medical science culture and also bridging lay culture with licensed professional culture. There were lots of places where we could have made a wrong turn, you know? And I was on a pretty steep learning curve. I just kept my mouth shut, and I listened. And then I had my partner there, the staff person at the end of the day, he would always make time for me, and I'd go in, and I'd say, "What does this mean? What is that?" I find it makes a big difference if there's somebody in the hospital or the institution who has at least some experience of Reiki practice because they appreciate the value. 

DIR: You have mentioned some essential things: first of all, to experience the practice. Second, listening, understanding them, and then communicating clearly in your case. Those are great tips for people to follow. 
PM: There's a difference between self-expression and communication. If we want to communicate better, we have to be better listeners. I find this true in my personal relationships, with my one-on-one clients for comprehensive healing sessions, and with students. They'll tell you what they want to know if you listen. I always keep in mind those wonderful words from Steve jobs: it's not the customer's job to know what they want. I can't wait for them to use my language or my concepts. I have to hear their language and recognize what they're saying behind what they're saying. 

So, if they ask what Reiki is, mostly they don't give a damn about what Reiki is. Most people just aren't that conceptually curious; what they're asking is, "Can this help me?" Or "Can this help somebody I love?" They've got some suffering that they're not able to address. And if we, as the Reiki practitioners and especially Reiki professionals, can be quiet enough and safe enough, they'll spill the beans. They'll tell us what they want to know. Then we can say to them what they've been asking us, even though they weren't using the words we would have used. 

DIR: It's all about listening and holding the space, and it's not trying to go, fix it or impose what we think is needed. You have achieved a lot of bringing Reiki into mainstream healthcare. However, right now, we are facing a lot of regulatory challenges. You are part of the group actively fighting these regulations. Can you explain what's going on?
PM: It's a very complex situation. Something that I feel very strongly about is that spiritual practices should not be legislated. It doesn't make sense. Is the government going to require a license to meditate or to pray? Reiki is a spiritual practice. If you even think about the logistics, how would they do that? I mean, that's a whole other thing. But the fact is that there are states that are looking to regulate, and it's never just Reiki practice. In Massachusetts, which is the current battleground, it seems to be all subtle practices, all noninvasive practices that have been recognized as being safe. 

Noninvasive means safe. And that's why there's no licensing for them. Because licensing, ostensibly, is to protect the public. You don't want a surgeon who hasn't gone through medical school with a specialty at the end, right? Because if a surgeon makes a mistake, there are horrible consequences. But as Reiki professionals, certainly, we can hurt people, but it's through our mishandling of another human being. It's not through the practice itself. And that's human nature, and that's not something that can be really controlled through regulation. 

The Massachusetts legislature has bills introduced, which, if passed, would mean immediately that professionals [from all these practices] would become illegal because they would [require] licensing. There's not even a six-month transition period. If it's passed, you know, as it's written. That's the acute crisis, and we need to address that. There's a petition, and I hope everybody will sign that petition and share it. Nag your friends to sign it as well and share it!

But then bigger than that is how can we keep our practice available [and] accessible to the public? We all have different Reiki practices. I think we all want the way we practice to be available to our grandchildren and our great-grandchildren. If the government—and it would be at the state level because the states regulate healthcare practices—takes control of licensing these practices, that means that there will be a small board. And somebody on that board, who probably is a friend of somebody in the legislature, knows something about Reiki practice. That person would be responsible for deciding what the licensing would involve, what we're allowed to teach, what's our curriculum, how we are supposed to practice. Does it have to be off the body? Does it have to be on the body? Do we have the freedom to choose according to what we think is best and best for our clients? 

The solution that I am working to further is, first of all, Reiki practitioners [need] to get savvier about communicating. Because, as you mentioned so astutely before, the way a lot of Reiki practitioners speak about Reiki is very unguarded. For people who aren't of that mindset, it sounds scary. It sounds imbalanced. It sounds like something is taking them over. It's confusing at best. So, for Reiki practitioners to be more savvy in their communication, because a lot of the problems that we're experiencing date back to the way that we've communicated, you know, just kind of reckless and thoughtless. And then reaching out to our state elected officials: calling their offices, making an appointment, [although] you probably won't get to speak to the actual official. Does it matter? You can speak to their gatekeeper. This is their job. And to be able to speak very succinctly, you know, "My Reiki practice is important to me." "I don't know how I could have gotten through my cancer treatment without my Reiki practice. The doctors certainly addressed cancer, but that's what helped me heal in a very profound way." End of story.

People want to make it big. No! Big makes doctors and legislators who are conservative [nervous.] No matter whether they're Republican or Democrat, they're conservative by nature, right? So, when people speak big, in an exaggerated way, it makes them nervous. It discredits us. We want to be very sober and simple. Your little Reiki story. How it helped you get your child to sleep at night. That's huge. But they need to hear from a lot of us, and they need to hear about Reiki practice in a way that's not scary and off-putting. Not going in there and saying, "Well, let me give you some Reiki." No, no, no! Please, don't do that!

The only reason we ever talk about Reiki practice in a situation like that is to shorten the distance between where that person is now and when they're going to have their first Reiki experience. Because once they have an experience, the conversation changes. But let's be realistic, our elected officials will probably not have a Reiki experience. We need to get their attention first of all and then equip them with some simple language and stories so that they see, "Oh yeah, this is important to the people who have voted for me and will vote for me again." 

DIR: And it's also safe. I think those stories you mentioned actually feed the clear distinction between alleviating pain and suffering, the latter of which should not be regulated. 
PM: Yes. There is another option; it's called Safe Harbor law. And it's something that has been conceptualized and actually passed in Minnesota. I think it was in 2005. That means we can practice these noninvasive practices as we see fit within reasonable parameters. Not interfering with any existing licensing but specifying noninvasive practices as not needing to be regulated. There's a woman, Diane Miller, and she has a new book called Health Freedom: The Greatest Freedom of All. And she has an organization helping people in different states to do this. 

DIR: I really appreciate you giving us the tools to help fight for our freedom to practice. I will post the links so people can reach out to their representatives. 
PM: Yeah. And you want to know before you make the phone call. You never know; you could get right through to somebody. It could be a slow afternoon. So, you want to know what you're going to say and rehearse it with friends. Reiki practitioners who know each other can get together and coach each other. It will help make us better Reiki practitioners because we'll be better able to represent what we do to people who aren't like us in some ways but are like us in other ways. [People] who—as his holiness says—want to be happy and want to avoid suffering. It's very simple the human condition.

DIR:  And that is the essence of the Reiki precepts at the end. Sometimes we get very lost when it comes to explaining Reiki practice. But, in the end, it's letting go of anger and worry, becoming more grateful, and finding that space of compassion. It's that simple. So simple that it's very complicated to get there. 
PM: You know, it's true. I tell my first-degree students that the hardest part about learning to practice Reiki is how simple and easy it is. Because all your life you've worked hard to get anything. Believed you should have worked harder for the thing that got away. In Reiki practice, the skill and the effort are really of self-restraint. Just place my hands [places hands on her body]. Now I'm practicing Reiki, and [lift her hands from her body] now I'm not. Hands-on, I'm practicing Reiki. Hands-off, I'm not. If it's that simple in the foundation, you won't get lost in your practice.

DIR:  Then you can actually extend that to your life. Like you lost the subway, you just lost the subway. Don't add, and don't complicate it. Yet Reiki is deceptively simple because you can actually go very deep, just by placing your hands repeatedly day after day. 
PM: I think the only way we can go deep is through repetition. Sometimes clients will come, and they'll say, "I'm with this old issue again." They're so disappointed in themselves that they haven't solved something. I try to help them appreciate it and be grateful that's it's an old issue because if you kept having new issues, you'd be overwhelmed. We have these old habits, and we keep revisiting them with new understanding and greater compassion. Things melt a little bit, and then we're doing better. Then something happens that takes us by surprise or frightens us, and we fall back into these very old habits a little bit. We usually don't fall so deeply. But what if we fell into new bad habits? How would we ever get ourselves out from under the suffering? If we always had to find a new plan, right? 

DIR: Oh, wow! I never looked at it that way. 
PM: It's so human. I mean, people are putting themselves down because they still have these old issues instead of like, "Thank God I still have this." For me, the simplicity of the protocol that I use for my practice, which is just an eight-placement protocol, creates a container for each practice that I can just drop into. I can practice with absorption and abandon. Not focusing, not concentrating, that's working too hard. I placed my hands, and something in me says, "Okay, now we're going home."

DIR: Yeah. I know many people go with intuition, and I'm like, "Learn your protocol because then you can always fall back on it and practice free of anger and worry. 
PM: People who say they practice intuitively, in my experience, there's nothing intuitive about it. They're thinking. They're engaged in a lot of stuff. They feel something and think they have to move their hands there. Just because you feel something doesn't mean it needs any more attention. Wherever we place our hands, it's not just that part of the body that responds. The initial response on a physical level certainly seems to be through some combination of the nervous system, the endocrine system, and likely the endocannabinoid system. These are the three most subtle systems in the body, and they're always playing with each other. So once that is set in motion, that's everywhere in your body. Where is your nervous system not? I place my hands on my chest; it's not just the nerves under my hand that are responding. It's my whole nervous system. This downregulation from the stress response, the sympathetic response to the parasympathetic digest, and heal response, and that involves everything. 

So you're going to feel things throughout your body as your body downregulates itself. We don't have to make that happen. We give our systems the invitation or the necessary information and then let it respond in the way that is meaningful, appropriate, and doable at that moment. And that's something we can't possibly know or even intuit, but our bodies know. We know how to heal. So, I think a big piece of Reiki practice, and certainly Reiki self-practice, is getting our minds out of the way. What we think we know. Being a little humbler with what we think we know.

DIR: Thank you, Pamela, so much for this interview. I learned a lot, and I'm sure everybody reading this will do, too. 

Drawing inspired by the interview with Pamela Miles.

DIVE INTO REIKI: Frank Arjava Petter is a world-renowned Reiki historian and teacher. Based in Greece, he travels worldwide, lecturing and teaching Jikiden Reiki workshops. He is a Dai Shihan in Jikiden Reiki and vice-president of the Jikiden Reiki Association founded by Tadao Yamaguchi in Kyoto, Japan.
His spiritual journey started at a very young age with meditation, spending 7 years practicing with Osho. Later, he moved to Japan and began teaching Reiki there in 1993.
He is the best-selling author of Reiki Fire, Reiki, the Legacy of Dr. Usui, The Original Reiki Handbook of Dr. Mikao Usui, co-author of The Spirit of Reiki, Reiki Best Practices, The Hayashi Reiki-Manual, Reiki ganz Klar, This is Reiki, and One with Reiki. Frank, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us.
FRANK ARJAVA PETTER: Thank you very much, Nathalie. It's a pleasure. I love talking to people. Like all of us—all of you listeners and we included—[what] I miss the most is the contact with people. The one-on-one contact, the hands-on contact. But we have the technology to at least keep in touch like this, and I appreciate it.

DIR:  Agree! I wish we could this in person. Hopefully, we'll do it soon. You have a fascinating origin story because you started your spiritual search young. Can you talk about your first experiences?
FAP: I'm not like a lot of people who are into spirituality and will say, "Oh, you know, I remember when I was three years old, and suddenly, I saw the light." Not at all. For me, it started when I was around 15, 16 [years old.] I started reading books on Zen, which I liked very much. I hated school, so, in my mind, after school, I was not going to go to university. I was going to go to Japan, enter a Zen monastery, and never be seen again. Ever. That was my secret plan, but of course, it became completely different. 
About the same time, I went on vacation to Brittany, France, with my parents. I remember one day sitting on the beach was in the spring break. There were no tourists there, and you had like miles of to your left miles of beach to the right. There was nobody. And I just see this dog from, I don't know, two miles away. A big white kind of retriever or something. And he comes to me like dogs do: he walks on the beach, going left, going right, sniffing here and there. But he went straight for me. I stretched out my arm, and he sniffed my hand. I looked at the dog, and I thought, I want to be like this: straightforward, fearless, and tender. 
A couple of years later, my parents and I got some letters from my brother who had gone to India overland from Germany and ended up with Osho, who, at the time, was the antichrist for everybody. There was very bad press about him everywhere. Whatever you heard or saw was just horrendous. We thought, "Oh, my God, my older brother has gone nuts. We got to do something about it!" So, my parents decided to send me there just to check up on him. to take a look. To see if he was okay. If he was okay, fair enough. If he wasn't okay, try and persuade him to come home and leave all of this craziness behind. I went to India to the Osho ashram in March 1979. I took one step into that place, and I thought, "I don't ever want to go anywhere else ever again." That's how [my journey] really started. At the time, I was 18. It hit me hard.
Ever since that moment, my sole viewpoint in life is spiritual development. For me in the first few years, and then—after I started teaching in the early and mid-nineties—also for my students. This is what I'm concerned with: spiritual growth. People waking up with me. Waking me up. Being present, showing people how to be present, how to deal with themselves, and how to live a beautiful contented, happy, conscious, and peaceful life.
This is my whole purpose, but at the same time, I am not out there in space. Thinking only about all these things. I'm a super simple person, very simple-minded. I'm here living in a small Greek village with about a thousand people, a very traditional place. It's super easy. I love everybody. The people like me, we can talk about the weather, about potatoes. We can talk about nothing at all. We can have a glass of whiskey together. I'm really a very simple-minded person. 
My intention is to do everything in life with a spiritual attitude. If you do a mundane thing with a spiritual attitude, it becomes like a prayer, a meditation, a celebration of life. And if you do something "spiritual" with a mundane attitude, it just becomes a waste of time.

DIR: I love that because when we practice Reiki, we have trouble accepting our "regular" life. We keep it separate versus seeing our everyday life as practice. The other thing we do is overcomplicating it. What is your perception of Reiki right now? 
FAP: Reiki is the simplest thing in life at all. I learned Reiki in 1992. I became a teacher in 1993 and started teaching after five, six months or so after I digested all of that. I thought Reiki was this complicated thing. Then seven years later, I came to my third Reiki teacher to Chiyoko Yamaguchi. When we asked her a complicated question, she always looked at us and said, "You think too much." Like a grandma would say to you and not like, somebody's arrogant from a place of "I know better than you, and you will learn one day when you're my age." Don't think so much. Reiki is such a simple thing. It's the simplest thing in the world. You know how it works? She said, "It goes like this: on [places his hand on his body], off [lifts his hand from the body]." That's all you need to know. Go out and touch people. There's nothing you need to do: no rituals, no prayers, no symbols, no nothing just: on, off. This is how I practice it. 
And this is how I practice it here in the village too. In all the Greek villages, at least the ones on the islands that I know of, people get nicknames. And they get them very quickly, but they stick…. My nickname in the village is the German doctor. This is how people see me. When somebody has an injury or feels sick, they come, and [my wife and I] treat them. We don't do anything spiritual, like talking about energy and all that. We go, Okay. Sit down or lay down and so on. And that's it. It's very simple. Reiki is very, very simple. I completely avoid all the esoteric stuff when I talk about it—not only with simple-minded villagers—but in general, because we don't need it. It's not necessary. 

DIR: Agree. Reiki is so simple, but that doesn't mean it's not deep. In Western culture, we often confuse simple with shallow or uninteresting, but Reiki has a lot of depth. Can you talk about that?
FAP: The only thing that really matters is what you have here now and what you have and what you are here and now. Just you, in your simplicity, breathing in, breathing out. That's it. Nothing else matters: tomorrow never comes; yesterday is gone. So, what have we got? We've got this moment. In this moment, we have a choice. Whether we want to spend this moment dreaming or being present. And Reiki is a wonderful tool to help you be present in this moment. All bodywork is like that, really, because touch anchors both the person who gives the treatment and the one who receives it in the present.

DIR: I love that concept of touch as an anchor. Often, we're touching to heal, to do something anchoring both of us in the moment. That is beautiful.
FAP: Yeah. Let's say somebody experienced something traumatic. You give them a hug. The more you hold them in your arms, the same thing happens. They immediately come to the present and maybe come out of their traumatic movement. They come back to the now. And when you're in the now, you're okay. 
Reiki brings you here. And when we are here, what problem do we have here? We don't have any problems. Problems are always either far ahead or far behind.

DIR: And when you're in the middle of a problem, you're present. You have to be.
FAP:  Right. For example, when you have an accident, suddenly everything turns into slow motion. You function perfectly. You do everything right. And then afterward, when it's finished…. [it's another thing.]
The first and foremost thing about Reiki is that it brings both the giver and the receiver into the present moment. And only in the present moment can things change. Things can happen.
The next thing people often get confused about is that they think, "Uh, this or that person is such a great healer!" Somebody asked me recently, "Who's the greatest healer on the planet at the moment?" And I said, "You know, I will tell you who it is. It's the human body. The human body is the greatest healer." 
It's not the Reiki person or the shaman, or someone else who does the healing. The body heals itself if it can. But there are obstacles to healing, and those must be removed. And this is what the Reiki person or the shaman does. He energizes the body so that those obstacles can be removed. In terms of Reiki, those obstacles are toxicity, and the removal happens by detoxing. The body begins to detox, and then healing happens if it's still possible.
When the time is up, the time is up. You can stand on your head; do all sorts of tricks, and it's not going to work. The important thing for us as Reiki [practitioners] to understand is that this is not our business. We're not here to decide who stays and who goes. We don't know what the situation for our client is. We know nothing. We may know that they have a certain illness, but we don't know why they have it. We don't know what purpose that may serve in the long run… You don't know where they are on their journey from ignorance to self-realization. And this is not for you to judge. All we do is place our hands on that person and trust that the healing will happen in due time. Whenever that might be.

DIR: I resonate very strongly with this. There is a lot of pressure on Reiki practitioners to "diagnose" or "read" the situation in some lineages. What advice will you give to a practitioner who feels they need to get the "healing" right?
FAP: In Jikiden Reiki, what we learned to do is called in Japanese byosen, the body's reaction to the incoming energy. We evaluate with the perception in our hands. So there's some kind of natural diagnosis happening, but it's not medical. And it's not that we look for it either. It's just perception the same way that you say, put your hand in the fridge, and you know that it's cold. You don't have to sit there and think, "Oh, I'm going to check the fridge from the inside and see what that temperature is." No, you just put your hand inside, and you know, "Uh, cold!" It's like that. 
From an Asian point of view, they would say your ego is not required in the work at all. Now, if we define this from an Oriental way, it becomes very uncomfortable. So, from a Western, let's say psychological understanding, maybe we think of ego as the negative aspects of our psycho-emotional selves. Arjava is egoistic. He thinks only of himself. He wants more and more money! He is like this. He is an a$#*!
From an Oriental point of view, because the Japanese are Buddhist and they believe in emptiness being the source of everything, they believe that there is no separate identity, no separate self. There is no ego. That ego is the only thing that doesn't exist. The only thing that is not [ego] is that spaciousness. That is your presence, that blue sky. Everything else is clouds passing in that blue sky. 
So, if I, during the treatment, go and do all sorts of stuff, the Japanese traditional Reiki practitioner would say, "Get the hell out of there. What are you doing there? This is not an ego trip here. You're supposed to just be emptying. Let that pass through you and leave it up to people upstairs." That's how they would look at it there. From a Japanese point of view, ego is everything that we would call "I." Everything that defines us has nothing to do with a Reiki treatment. You leave that outside.

DIR: Which is a practice per se—and it's hard! But the good news is that, in time, you start feeling a little bit of that. For me, emptiness also means inner spaciousness. We're so crammed with things, by creating the little space with meditation and Reiki practice is such a relief—because we always think of practitioners helping others, but we must start with ourselves. So, I love the concept of emptiness. 
Once we were talking about Osho, you mentioned something that I love. When I asked you how the Osho ashram was, you laughed at me because I imagined you attending like 300 orgies. And you're like, "Nathalie, every teacher is a mirror." Would you care to elaborate on the concept of the teacher as a mirror when it comes to Reiki?
FAP: Not only is the teacher a mirror, but everybody in every situation in life is a mirror. This pandemic situation is a mirror. Let's start here because we are all concerned with this at the moment. 
Let's say you have some fear of survival during the COVID situation; that's going to come up. If you have some unethical business ideas in the COVID situation, that will come up. Whatever there is inside, whatever is hiding under the surface will come up. It's like, you're looking at this thing all the time, and you see yourself. So, what is required of us to do is to be aware of what is happening: when you're being mirrored, when to be reflective, to look, not to judge.
If you're in the teacher's role, then, of course, that becomes vital. Because, first of all, you are mirroring your students, but they also mirror you. It's not one-way traffic. It's two mirrors looking at each other. Two pieces of emptiness looking at each other. That's an amazing thing. And it requires great awareness not to project anything into the other. You cannot ask your students to do this practice, but you can ask it of yourself, so you don't project into your students and don't bring them down. You don't force your worldview on them but give them space and encouragement to always reflect. To look at themselves, learn from all their clients, from all their friends, from all situations. This is the real job of a Reiki teacher. [Teaching the system] is the smaller part.

DIR: What you are saying is very important, but often training consists of attunement and a manual or a video, or a few hours of in-person training. What do you think about the current state of Reiki training today?
FAP: What I think is just my personal opinion. I always filter everything through the wisdom of my own heart. I learned that very early on. But one of the things I learned from Osho is don't believe anything that anybody says, but always check it. To know if it is valuable inside or not. If it works for you.
So, I would say, as a Reiki teacher, what do I feel comfortable with? How do I feel comfortable teaching it? I feel comfortable teaching Reiki in person. I don't feel comfortable teaching Reiki online. So, I don't do it, but it's not a judgment. If you're comfortable doing online courses, that is your business, and you have to live with it…
For me, it's not an option. I don't like it, and I don't do it. That's what I'm very happy [online] talking to people and discussing things around the topic of Reiki, but no actual teaching. I wait until I can touch my students again... For me, it's almost more important to go and eat lunch together during the workshop because that's where you really see what is happening inside people when there are no facets, no concepts. When there are no roles of teacher and student, when we are all the same, I think is when you really see things changing. To me, that only happens in the presence of one another. This is how I see it. I know that many people like to teach online. It's easier. It's convenient. You save all the airline fees, the hotels, the venues. I understand all that. People need Reiki a lot. I understand all that, but I'm not going to do it. I wait. I prefer to starve.
DIR: No, please, don't starve!
FAP: This is my truth. And I'm not saying it's the truth. There is no truth. There's only subjectivity. What I suggest is that you go inside and see, "What do you feel comfortable with?" And then you do that. Don't listen to anybody else. There's nobody smarter than you. There's nobody who knows better than you. Ask yourself what to do, how to do it, and then you are good. 
In our tradition, the teaching guidelines are quite serious and severe, but teaching, let's day starts with Shoden-Reiki 1. One then goes to Okuden-Reiki two. And then the different levels of the teachers. To become a fully certified teacher will take at least two or three years under tutelage. Plus, we have rules about how many hours of treatments one has to document in writing. It's like 120 hours of treatments with at least 40 different clients. You have to document it all and send it to the Institute. And then we decide whether we take somebody. So, we take that very seriously. You cannot do this on the weekend with us because we don't feel comfortable with that.

DIR: But I think this is good for the student. I got those eight-hour training, and when I started offering treatments, I was so insecure. I didn't have the proper training and support. And when I called to have a mentoring session, the answer I got was, "You don't need mentoring; you need a session to balance your chakras!" I knew then I was not going to do my Reiki master with that teacher. I feel we want to go through levels fast, but then we crumble. We need to start building a solid foundation. I think training for more hours is a better idea and waiting before becoming a teacher immediately.
FAP: Let's look at the traditional way that this was done. When I learned from Chiyoko sensei, you couldn't even ask to become a teacher. You would learn and learn and learn and learn. At some point, she would say to you, "Okay, now it's time." That was the traditional way. Of course, the Western world is not going to work like that. People don't understand this concept, especially where you live [in New York City.] People are so competitive, and they want everything right now. 
But what I'm saying is to get a good and solid Reiki education. There's no rush anyway. Why do you want to reach something? There's nothing to reach. You are not a better person if you're a Reiki master or a Reiki 1 practitioner. You're the same. It makes no difference. The difference is made by the work that you have done.
It's the inner work that we do [that makes the difference.] And, of course, the practical work that we do.
In Lesvos Island, where we live, we built a dojo training center. In the summer, that place is open for treatments every day, between 4:00 and 7:00 PM. Sometimes there are 30 people giving treatments every day all summer. So, we have maybe three, four, or five clients. And then a whole bunch of people, four or five on each table treating and treating, learning and learning. This is how you learn: by practicing. 

DIR: You mentioned your teacher Chiyoko Yamaguchi. Can you explain who she was?
FAP: Chiyoko Yamaguchi was my third teacher. And after I met her, I just taught what I had learned from her and left all the other [learnings] behind. She was a student of Hayashi sensei and learned Reiki from him in 1937. By the time I met her in 2000, she had 60 some years of daily practice. 
I asked her once how many treatments had she done? She said two or three every day for 63 years. I calculated it once. That's a lot. She was like an encyclopedia. You could ask her anything, "What do you do with fibromyalgia?" "Oh, yeah, in 1952, I treated this woman, and you do this. And then you do this and that." 
When I met her, I was already a well-known Reiki teacher. I had written three or four books. Everybody at that time knew who I was. And she said, "Okay, so you've been practicing for a while. Do you give treatments? I said, "Yes." She said, "Have you witnessed any healing?" I said, "Yes." She said, "Well, what?" I was like on the witness stand. I couldn't believe it because usually, Japanese people are not so inquisitive. "I'd been treating people with cancer or with whatever." "Have they gotten better?" she asked. I said, "Yes." She said, "I always ask people who are teaching Reiki, do you do treatments? Usually, they say, "No, I'm too busy teaching. And then I ask him, what in the world do you teach if you have no experience." 
I think that sums it up here. If we teach, especially if we teach, we must continue doing treatments. We must learn from every new client. The moment you stop learning, you're dead. You're finished. You might as well stay home and retire.
In my Reiki practice, we do it the same way as [all Japanese arts.] The focus is on the work. If you do your work, you progress. If you don't, you don't. It is not a judgment. It's not for everybody. But Reiki is not something that you need to take off some degree or something. It's not about that. It's about reaching a certain maturity in your practice, and you get that only by practicing. It's as simple as that. 

DIR: Often, I get questions, and my answer is to go and practice. Why? Because I can talk my head out, but it will still just be a concept. If you don't practice, you will come back with the same question because some questions are only answered by practice. And only have specific questions when you practice. 
Changing course, I like to ask my guests about their biggest Reiki oops. Because most practitioners look at someone like you and think you are so advanced that you get everything right all the time. You went to Japan, have practiced for years, wrote books… "I will never be like him!" 
But Reiki teachers are human too. Can you share one mistake that ended up being a great lesson?
FAP: That list is long! I will tell you the one I did regarding my writing. I have no journalistic training at all. In 1994, a long time ago, I found the Usui memorial in Tokyo, which at that time we thought nobody had ever seen before, no foreigner. We translated the inscription. It said something about the Usui sensei's life that he had a very loving character, and he was humorous and was a very good speaker. And the people were hanging on to his kimono to get some of his energy, that he was married, had two kids, and so on. And that we should follow the legacy of the Meiji emperor. Period. A full period. The next sentence: Kyo dakewa. Ikarus na. Shinpai suna… the Reiki principles. So when I read it, I thought, "Wow, the Reiki principles are the legacy of the Meiji emperor." And I wrote that.

DIR: Oh, that is the source of the confusion. [Laughs] I've been researching that, and I kept hitting a wall every time I was trying to find the relationship between the Meiji emperor and the Reiki precepts!
FAP: It wrote that. And then, just after the book was out, we found out that those two parts of the inscription have nothing to do with one another. That was one of the big mistakes I made. And even now, people in their classes say that the Reiki principles come from the Meiji emperor. This was my fault, my fuck up. Sorry guys!
Usui sensei put them together from what we can call the zeitgeist, the spirit of the days. That was kind of common in spiritual circles. I researched lots of other spiritual groups, and they all have these kinds of precepts. It's a very Japanese thing. Even elementary schools will have some kind of ethical backbone or precepts hanging in the principal's office or general assembly.

DIR: This may have been my favorite mistake ever! It's precious! 
Talking about another thing, Reiki practitioners are often confused: the symbols. Some lineages draw them. Some meditate with them. How do you work with the Reiki symbols? 
FAP: The Reiki symbols are tools given to the student at a certain level after they've acquired certain skills. In Jikiden Reiki, the first symbol [is given in] the first level. We get the other symbols in the second level. It's all done differently. 
Perhaps one thing that is good to say is that we seem to think that we are initiated into a degree or initiated into a symbol in our Western Reiki lineages. And if you ask a traditional Japanese Reiki practitioner or Reiki teacher, they will say that you are not initiated into a degree or a symbol, but into Reiki again and again and again.
In most Reiki lineages, there are four symbols. There are the three for the second degree and the master symbol. In Japanese lineages, there is no master symbol. It was added by students of Takata sensei after she passed away. There was recently was an interview with Phyllis Furumoto [Mrs. Takata's granddaughter and heir] before she died where she finally said it. I've been saying it for 20 years, but nobody believed me. 

DIR: I love the difference that you made: we are initiated in Reiki over and over again, not attuned to a symbol. 
FAP: The symbols are very specific. They have a purpose. You use the first symbol for this, the second for that, the third for that. You don't mix them in the traditional school because they have each a purpose of their own. There's no need to mix anything. It's not that mixing is bad or will make you explode or something—it's not necessary. 

DIR: Every lineage has a different approach. I love minimalism, so the Japanese style fits me better. 
FAP: If you ask me, "What kind of Reiki do you practice?" I will say, look, the Reiki that comes out of my hands doesn't have a label. It's just pure unpolluted life energy. And [it's the same as] what comes out of Nathalie's hands, out of everybody who's listening or not, out of every mother's hands when she's treating her child. There is no label. 
There is only a difference in practice and philosophy. Think of what we talked about earlier: the mirror. Look at the practice and choose the one that suits you. I have had a long history of Japanese culture in this life. I lived there for 12 years. I had my first Japanese girlfriend when I was 18. I have this predisposition to all things Japanese… So, I choose that [style]. But if you ask me if it's better than any other kind of Reiki… Ph my God! How can my Reiki be better than yours? Only somebody who doesn't understand the basics of Reiki would say that. Reiki does not have a label. If you think that you're better than somebody else, you really need to look at yourself, work on that first, and better not teach others.

DIR: I feel like I am going to quote you like 300 times in the future! I wanted to close the interview by discussing your two most recent books.
FAP: I published in November a Reiki book called One with Reiki. It explains Reiki's background: Japanese [culture and] spirituality. So, people who practice Reiki can understand it better. 
A few weeks ago, I published a book that's called …Is… about living in the present, being present, living a meditative and fun life. It has lots of breathing techniques, meditation techniques, etc. It's really a fun project. The editor was laughing. She said, "Oh, my! The word Reiki appears for the first time on page 156!" 
I wrote it because I see the Corona [pandemic] as a chance to do introspection, to grow. For self-realization and to do all the things that you have not done until now. Maybe some of which you have avoided until now. To fix problems that you might still have not addressed and let go of your baggage.

DIR: I've read a couple of chapters, and I really enjoyed the tone: it's joyful and warm.
FAP: For me, what is important…is to have awareness. To be present in everything. Otherwise, you cannot do your practice. Reiki is the same. But what you also need is tenderness. Tenderness for the people that you're working with, but also for the steering wheel of your car while you're driving, or for the rocks, or for the animals—for everything. If you mix awareness, mindfulness, tenderness, and kindness, that's really an incredible mixture. And that will break your heart open like a pomegranate.
DIR: Your appreciation of tenderness really comes through in the book. It's a word we don't hear a lot about Reiki. We hear a lot about doing techniques, but tenderness is much more important than perfect technique. I'm just grateful we can have these conversations and your wisdom with the world and share your tenderness. Thank you so much for all your time and wisdom!
FAP: Thank you!

[Excerpt from the upcoming Reiki Healing Handbook].

Imagine the universe and everything in it: humans, animals, plants, mountains, and even stones. All of it has energy—yes, even the stone! Although invisible, this energy is unlimited and all-encompassing. While science is now demonstrating the impact of energy in our lives, ancient cultures have been aware of this fact for centuries. Known as Chi in China, Ki in Japan, and Prana in India, energy has been and continues to be the basis for many healing modalities.

How does energy healing work? Well, imagine your energy flow is a river. When it flows freely, you function optimally—feeling good, energized, and inspired. However, life’s challenges can affect your energy. Worries, fears, anger, and trauma pile up like stones and mud in the river, obstructing its flow until only a trickle is left. You may feel drained, disconnected, and can experience physical pain or disease. So, how can you get your energy flowing freely again and, by doing so, jumpstart your body’s innate ability to heal? Meet Reiki, a century-old Japanese practice that combines hands-on-healing and mindfulness techniques to restore the flow of energy, promoting balance and well-being at all levels: body, mind, and spirit.

The word “reiki” can be translated from the Japanese as “universal life force” or “spiritual energy.” By connecting more consciously with this energy, or Ki, through the Reiki system of healing, you can feel more relaxed, centered, and improve your overall health. You may also start an incredible journey of self-discovery, self-forgiveness, and self-acceptance—letting go of anger and worry to discover a life filled with gratitude and a sense of purpose.

Originally developed as a spiritual practice by its founder, Mikao Usui, Reiki has become one of the most popular energy healing modalities in the West because it’s simple, effective, and can be performed by anyone. It is a nonreligious practice. It is also non-invasive, which means it won’t interact with medications. Reiki practice consists of five elements:

1. Precepts—To meditate upon or use as guidelines for the other aspects of the practice.

2. Hands-on Healing—The placement of hands on key points of the body to balance energy.

3. Meditations—To center the mind and build energy.

4. Mantras and Symbols—To connect to more specific types of energies or achieve a determinate state of mind.

5. Attunement—To significantly increase the flow of energy. It is also a way for a Reiki master to transfer wisdom to a student.

All of these—except the attunement, which is performed by a Reiki master—can be practiced on the self. Self-practice is, in fact, the cornerstone of Reiki practice. Because when we heal ourselves, we heal the world. This may sound like a bit much. But think about it: When you feel calm and happy, every person around you benefits from it. You also make more conscious choices at work or as a consumer, thereby helping the whole planet. And it all starts with a simple practice: Reiki.