DIVE INTO REIKI: Today I have a wonderful guest, Bill Stevens. Bill Stevens is a member of the Congregation of Christian Brothers and he taught 25 years in schools, before training to become a hospital chaplain. He served as a chaplain for ten years at three different hospitals in NY and NJ. While at St. Peter’s Medical Center in New Jersey he began to experience people with HIV/AIDS coming into the hospital in the 80’s, which led him to establish a nonprofit organization, Chrysalis Ministry, to reach out to those who experienced this disease as a death sentence at that time. It was during this twelve-year period of time that Bill incorporated Reiki into his ministry. After that, Bill worked with the visiting nurse supporting people at the end of life.  Bill has studied with teachers such as Khandro Kunzang Dechen Chodron, Gilbert Gallego, Hyakuten Inamoto, Frans Stiene and Kathleen Prasad. He still teaches at 88 from his home in New Rochelle, New York.  Bill, thank you so much for saying yes to the interview!
BILL STEVENS: You're welcome. Delighted to be with you, Nathalie.

DIR: I met you first at a play day with Frans Stiene, and then we had the retreat together in Lancaster. It was such a pleasure to practice together.
BS: Absolutely. Yeah, I remember that. That was a great weekend retreat.

DIR: I always start with the same question: when was the first time you came in contact with Reiki? What was your first experience?
BS: Well, it was with my teacher, Penny Nissen. As I started my ministry to people with Aids, I heard of a chaplain in San Francisco working in the hospitals out there. He was doing Reiki and I said, “What is Reiki?” I didn't know what it was. But he gave me the inspiration to find out. And I found the only Reiki master at the time in New Jersey—that was back in 1991—that I knew of anyway, there may have been others.

DIR: There was also no internet to look for them!
BS: Exactly. I made an arrangement to do a weekend course. I brought somebody who was living with HIV with me, and a woman, a social worker who was working with the community. The three of us went out and we did a weekend with this person, Penny Nissen. And we learned level 1 Reiki. I used that one class for the next seven, eight years, doing my work.

Bill Stevens,

DIR: Wow. I love that because we rush so much from Reiki 1 to Reiki 2 and Reiki 3. We go as fast as we can. And yet you did amazing work just with your Reiki level 1.
BS: Oh yeah, yeah. It was surprising to me. I didn't necessarily have any experience or was I able to talk with other people who were offering Reiki. I kept doing Reiki mainly because people were having such a positive experience. I wasn't feeling any big amounts of energy myself, but I just went into my meditation, followed the instructions that my teacher gave me for level 1 and just trusted [laughs]. And people just had some good experiences. I just was marveled by what they shared with me. I used to offer Reiki in various settings. I would go into a support group and while they were having their support group if someone wanted to have a Reiki session, I would be in another room. They could just slip out of the group, and come, and go back into the group.

I remember one person; he was really fighting an addiction and he had some mental issues as well. He came in for a session. At the end of the session, he just told me, “Wow.” He had a great experience, the most spiritual experience he ever experienced in his life. And I just said, “Wow” with him [laughs].

I would visit people in the hospital. I remember going into one particular person who had a lot of pain. I offered him Reiki and it helped his pain. It surprised both of us that the pain went away. And I visited him a few times, and he would just shout out, “Oh, here comes my pain medication” [Laughs.] I was afraid that the nurses would think I was bringing him some additional drugs!

DIR: That you were like the secret dealer of painkillers!
BS: But it was because of those experiences and similar ones, that I just persevered. I knew that it was making a difference for people

DIR: I appreciate you so much saying this. I have a lot of my students or people who approach me because of the podcast. They're so concerned about not feeling all those very strong sensations that some people feel. And when you say that you practice just trusting. And it works! I think it's going make them feel very much like, “I'm okay. I'm not doing anything wrong.”
BS: Yes. I think Frans Stiene, in his class, he taught me that. To let go of all [of that.] If you feel it, great. It's a gift. But don’t focus your attention on that, because it's not the essential part of what we're doing.

DIR: You sent me a lot of beautiful texts written by you. There was one where you were talking about taking your chaplain collar off and focused on holding the space. Could you elaborate a little bit on that experience that you had?
BS: Oh, yes. I was teaching for 25 years in our schools. I was in a very structured community life. You wear the black robes and the collar, and you tend to hide behind that. I mean, this is who you present to the world. That's all they see, whatever, whatever that means to them.

When I began my hospital chaplaincy, it was kind of like a clinical pastor education program. It's a very formal, structured training. We had three different sections of about 12 weeks each. We went through the first section of 12-week training and my counselor, the one running the program for our particular group of six people, she gave me the challenge to wear a suit the next time, without any collar. No black robes.

I was 45-50 years old at the time, and I said, “Oh, that's a challenge for me!” It was a big deal for me. I went into the hospital the first day, and I'd hear, “Hi brother. Hi brother.” No one made any remarks at all. But when I went in the room [without my collar], it was more of a challenge. But again, sometimes people threw me out of the room because of the collar! This time I had to go in as Bill Stevens, and that was a different experience. There's no agenda that people had put on me as I entered the room, you know? That was it was very growthful experience.

 DIR: Like you couldn't hide or protect behind anything. A little like our practice: you just place your hand and there is nothing to hide, nothing to do beyond trusting and being present.
BS: Yes, just going into your own meditation, and that’s all.

DIR: After many years of practicing Reiki Level 1 , what made you feel you needed or wanted to go further?
BS: I began to hear people speak about another level, and the opportunity arose. A teacher appeared. That always happens, when the student is ready, the teacher appears.  I did go to Leslie Mondou. She was offering a Level 2 class in the same lineage. And so I did take that. It was in that class that I heard of a teacher in in Maryland, Kunzang Dechen Chodron. She was an amazing woman. She was a nurse up in Vermont who was exposed to Reiki, but she had a transformative experience and was led to a Buddhist teacher who was giving a presentation. She became drawn to do to join by the Buddhist community in Maryland. And she was in Vermont. She left her profession, her friends, [and] her family. I think she was divorced at the time. but she did have a son. She made arrangements for him to be taken care of. I think he was going into college at the time. She went into this Buddhist community in Maryland and had incredible experience just for her own personal growth. She became involved with the Reiki Jin Kei Do lineage.

Seiji Takamori was one of the prominent people in that lineage. And he was a monk in Japan who got permission to go study over in Nepal and India. He went up into the mountains and studied with yogis for 20 years. He got deep into the Buddhist meditation practices and deep into the chakra work, energy work, and Qigong. That got all thrown into the teachings of the Reiki Jin Kei Do. And that's what my teacher experienced. She used to go over to Nepal maybe once or twice a year and spend a month in meditation with her teachers over there.

I did about 300 hours of study with her. I did the Reiki Jin Kei Do level 1, 2, 3, and two deeper teachings with what they called the Buddho EnerSense, which were a very deep Buddhist practices. It was challenging for me. I probably didn't understand it all [laughs], but I was very much exposed to it. I developed a deeper meditation practice, and I did do the master level with one of her students. That’s when I began to teach Reiki. Because the whole Aids development shifted at some point when people didn't have the medications, they needed to extend their life. And I was able to begin to teach some of the people that I used to serve with Reiki, so they could incorporate that into their lives and make that part of their recovery.

 DIR: We often practice Reiki with the expectation of becoming better, of enjoying a better life. But with end-of-life, it's a completely different perspective of what Reiki can offer. What did your practice offer them?
BS: The biggest part of the Chrysalis Ministry was to create a safe space for people. We had a wonderful nun who opened up a retreat house to us, and we did four-day retreat programs there. That was a time when people were afraid to come out of their houses, or even afraid to tell their family that they had Aids. There was such a stigma attached to it. Something very similar to COVID, the pandemic, that fear around it. So, they came together then at this retreat house. For 10 years, we did about four retreats a year, with about 50-60 people at a time. Some came back certainly more than once. Sometimes they would meet relatives there. They each had kept their secret from each other. It was people from all walks of [life], people who were homeless, people who were in shelters, people from Wall Street, gay men, straight men and women, people who picked up Aids from drug addiction. It was just a women and men together. It was just a great thing for them to come together and be safe. Then we broke them up into groups and they had all sorts of different programs going on. A big part of that [was that] every day we offered them a massage, and Reiki. Whichever they decided to choose and made that part of the day. We got massage practitioners volunteering their time to come at that time to offer this to them. It was really a wonderful experience for us and for them as well.

DIR: That is beautiful because they were not being touched a lot at the time. People were really scared of contagion. For them to receive touch it must have been very special.
BS: I became a massage practitioner as well for that purpose. Because [there were treated] almost like the leper, the untouchable, so they really appreciated that.

DIR: Reiki makes me feel safe in your body. The fact that you created a safe community where they could be safe, I find it a beautiful expression of the Reiki.
BS: Absolutely.

DIR: And from then you went to work with end-of-life services, right?
BS: Towards the end of the Chrysalis Ministry, I had open heart surgery, like an emergency. I took some time off. During that sabbatical year so to speak , I heard of end-of-life program that was being authored up in San Francisco by a Frank Ostaseski. I was kind of drawn to do that, probably because of my own experience around my open-heart surgery and my experience with the AIDS community. They’re very much end-of-life-issues. This was an opportunity to go deeper into that, to jump in and learn more about the end of life and how I could be with other people. And also just for myself personally. It was a great program and there's about 25 of us there. There were doctors, nurses, social workers, chaplains, volunteers. It was a great group of people.

We came together four days a month. And then we would go back to where our home was and do some field work. That threw us right into the situation so that we could come back with our experiences each month and talk about them. And also have that experience of being with someone at the end of life. There was a hospice, the Visiting Nurse association, in New Jersey. I asked them if I could volunteer there to do my field work. And so that's how that all started. That was a full year program. We went out there four days, each month and I learned so much. The teachers there were just incredible.

DIR: And can you share a little bit of some of your experience with of end-of-life care and Reiki practice?
BS: I asked the Visiting Nurses if I could get a job there as a chaplain. They said yes. I guess I was 70-years-old at the time. I think I said I would come in three days a week. I gave myself a little break [laughs]. No sooner I got into the work, I said, “Well, you know, I would like to offer Reiki to my patients. And they had a little problem with it, so they said, “Well, we have to go up before the board of directors and ask them about it.” So I had to leave my case before the board of directors and they put me on probation [laughs].

What I did first of all, I taught a group of nurses. I threw it out there, “Would anyone like to take a Reiki class?” Which they did and they enjoyed it. I would have someone send me patients, since they knew what it was and how they profited by it. Then I also asked the director. I said, “Whenever you have a real bad day, just give me a call, I'll come by, and I'll give you a session.” That happened pretty quickly; those days for her came up very often! So, she called me. I went in and gave her about a half hour Reiki session. She was convinced. I didn't have to I hide in my corner after that.

DIR: I love how you keep it so simple: when you have a bad day, come, and try this. That’s it.
BS: Right? Yeah. [Giving] an experience, right? Not to give a big spiel about it [laughs].

 DIR: What tip would you give someone who is working on an end-of-life program or in palliative services end of life?
BS: Well, yeah. I had to learn all that, you know, by making mistakes. When I called people, seeing if they wanted to visit, I got into the habit of saying Reiki is a spiritual, healing practice, which people find very relaxing and comforting. That's all the information I gave them on the phone. I had about less than a minute to ask them if they would like me to drop by. So, I couldn't go into a big history of Reiki. I felt that if a person was interested in spirituality or interested in healing, then they would be open to it. And if those words turned them off, then they would then they would say, “Thanks very much but no.” But that was okay. At least the door was open for people who were familiar with those words and wanted me to come and visit.

My only equipment was I had a little music box and my stool. When I came into the house, or the hospital room, I would decide where I wanted to sit. If I came into the house and the person was sitting in the chair, then I brought my stool over to the chair. If they're lying on the couch, I brought my stool right next to the couch. If they're lying in their bedroom, I brought my stool right there. And if I went into a hospital room instead of dragging chairs around, I could just bring my stool close to wherever the patient was in the bed.

It's amazing what little space you had there, but you could fit your stool right in there and set yourself down right beside them. And then that was where I would start offering Reiki to them. I wasn't doing a lot of hand positions. It was just placing your hands off the body or sometimes just being in your meditation. But the responses [were] very powerful in the sense of people being relieved of their pain or going into a very peaceful and relaxed place.

You never knew what kind of a situation you would go into. I remember once of just going into this room [and it] was almost totally dark. The whole room was lined with people in the chairs, and this bed was in the middle. The woman was in the bed, moaning very loudly. I had two of her children on the bed with her, and the husband on the side of the bed. I just went in and opened up my stool. I was at the end of the bed and began to offer Reiki without saying anything. At one point her husband had to leave the room and he signaled me to come closer. I was there about 45 minutes to an hour when finally the woman seemed to stop moaning and she seemed to be more peaceful. I stayed there another half hour, and then I left. Maybe a couple of hours after I left, she passed, and the husband told the social worker that she had been in this kind of condition, moaning and being very anxious, for a couple of weeks. And that was the most peaceful that he had seen her. And she died very peacefully at that time.

I always ask myself, what is Reiki? I don't know [laughs]. It's something very profound. It's not, not anything magical that you do because I know myself, [and] it's not anything coming from me. There's no magical thing that you're doing. You're kind of just becoming one with the energy. I love the way that Kathleen Prasad teaches Reiki: just becoming one with the animals. Just offering that space to them, but not pushing it on them. And Frans [Stiene] letting me know that this is a spiritual practice. The more you do your practice, paying attention to the precepts, opening up your heart, practicing your meditation and holding that space… the more you can do that, then healing is a possibility. But you don't have any expectations. You’re not to figure things out. You're not promising people anything. What is Reiki? A lot of times Frans used to tell us, “Just be Reiki.” Just be love, just, just be that. I think healing is like a side effect of your practice. The more you practice, the more possibilities there are.

 DIR: I love the way you expressed that, “The more you practice, the more possibilities, right?” Often new students try to understand what Reiki is with their head. But you can only understand through practice. What is your daily practice Bill? Like, because I know you also practice Tai Chi and Qigong.
BS: Well, each morning, I go for a walk. Then I come back home, and I'll do a half hour to 45 minutes of Tai Chi, and Qigong. That kind of quiets my mind. And then I will do a half hour to 45-minute meditation. I make sure I do that every day. But then I get to offer myself Reiki at night when I'm going to sleep [for] probably close to 45 minutes. When I wake up in the morning, I'll give myself Reiki as well. That's really my spiritual practice, you know?

DIR: I love your saying your spiritual practice being a chaplain. I often get emails from people who are worried about religion and Reiki. For those people who are a bit concerned about mixing religion and Reiki, could you share your point of view?
BS: Well, yes, I could. [Laughs]. At the hospice, I would be asked to do part of the volunteer training, talking about chaplaincy, talking about Reiki as well. When I mentioned Reiki as a spiritual practice, sometimes there would be a clergy person present, and they'd be kind of shocked that I would put Reiki as a spiritual practice, you know. Sometimes we would get into a little back and forth on it, but sometimes they would just be visibly upset with that. At one point, there was another chaplain at the VNA and he, very specifically, went into a discussion with me about Reiki being a spiritual practice. I think it's because of its Buddhist background. I think it's because like the church is the only one who has that authority, you know. That no one else can do healing but the person ordained.  That's very much there, you know?

There was a period of time, maybe in the nineties, that a group of bishops in the Catholic church came out very strongly against Reiki. After I left the hospital as a chaplain at St. Peter's they, they said the Bishop said it would be forbidden for anyone to do Reiki at the hospital. But how can they tell whatever you're doing in the hospital?

DIR: That's true, especially when you're in your meditation state.
BS: That there's nothing that they we’re doing [they can see]. But it went to that extent. I never let it interfere with my work in the hospital.  I think it's a matter of authority. But Jesus sent out his disciples to heal people in the village. He didn't grasp this as something that was only his. It was very spiritual thing. And the disciples went out into the villages and healed the people. So, it did come up for me, but I didn't allow it to interfere with anything I taught or anything I did personally. I think that the brothers never questioned anything, which was very helpful for me. They allowed me to do the things that I felt that I needed to do. They were supportive then in that way, so that was helpful

DIR: That was great. Thank you for sharing that. I always refer people who ask me about this to the Reiki principles of precepts, and I'm like, this is the embodiment of Reiki practice: Do not anger, do not worry. That is not evil. Thank you so much Bill for sharing you story. Is there anything you would like to add?
BS: Towards the end of my hospice work, I began to become more aware of Kathleen Prasad’s work. And during these last few years I've been becoming more involved in the shelters. She taught me so much. She and she has created the Let Animals Lead technique, where you just are there, and the animals come and take what they want instead of chasing after them. [Laugh].

DIR: She's wonderful. I think we should take the same approach to human treatments.
BS: Absolutely. That's why when you talk about distance healing, that's all you're doing, you're just holding that space for people. She was a great influence on me as well, and I really enjoy working with her.

DIR: And I love that you keep on training and keep on deepening your practice all the time. I find that so beautiful and inspiring as well.
BS: Well, thanks. Yeah. I have to do that. [Laughs.]

DIR: And you still teach, right?
BS: I was 40 years on my own in New Jersey and I'm 88 years old now. And so the community asked me to come back closer. So, I'm in one of our communities in New Rochelle, but I kept my contacts and I have zoom and I teach my Tai Chi classes on it. I'm teaching my Reiki classes on zoom. I'm doing a Reiki class this Saturday, and I do my healing circle once a month on zoom. So that's great. I keep in touch with a lot of people in New Jersey. I'm not pushing for anything here in New Rochelle. I just say whatever the universe sends me I'm here, but I don't go out and knock on doors anymore. [Laughs].

DIR: No it's, but I'll be sharing your website and all your details so people can reach out to you, especially if they're in new Rochelle—they're lucky people to be around you!
BS: Thank you very much.

DIR: Thank you so, so much for your time. And I'm looking forward to the Lancaster retreat in 2022. We're kidnapping you. I'm driving you down there. It's one year away but start packing. Okay?
BS: [Laughs].

Drawing inspired by Bill Stevens’s story.

DIVE INTO REIKI: Frank Arjava Petter is a world-renowned Reiki historian and teacher. Based in Greece, he travels worldwide, lecturing and teaching Jikiden Reiki workshops. He is a Dai Shihan in Jikiden Reiki and vice-president of the Jikiden Reiki Association founded by Tadao Yamaguchi in Kyoto, Japan.
His spiritual journey started at a very young age with meditation, spending 7 years practicing with Osho. Later, he moved to Japan and began teaching Reiki there in 1993.
He is the best-selling author of Reiki Fire, Reiki, the Legacy of Dr. Usui, The Original Reiki Handbook of Dr. Mikao Usui, co-author of The Spirit of Reiki, Reiki Best Practices, The Hayashi Reiki-Manual, Reiki ganz Klar, This is Reiki, and One with Reiki. Frank, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us.
FRANK ARJAVA PETTER: Thank you very much, Nathalie. It's a pleasure. I love talking to people. Like all of us—all of you listeners and we included—[what] I miss the most is the contact with people. The one-on-one contact, the hands-on contact. But we have the technology to at least keep in touch like this, and I appreciate it.

DIR:  Agree! I wish we could this in person. Hopefully, we'll do it soon. You have a fascinating origin story because you started your spiritual search young. Can you talk about your first experiences?
FAP: I'm not like a lot of people who are into spirituality and will say, "Oh, you know, I remember when I was three years old, and suddenly, I saw the light." Not at all. For me, it started when I was around 15, 16 [years old.] I started reading books on Zen, which I liked very much. I hated school, so, in my mind, after school, I was not going to go to university. I was going to go to Japan, enter a Zen monastery, and never be seen again. Ever. That was my secret plan, but of course, it became completely different. 
About the same time, I went on vacation to Brittany, France, with my parents. I remember one day sitting on the beach was in the spring break. There were no tourists there, and you had like miles of to your left miles of beach to the right. There was nobody. And I just see this dog from, I don't know, two miles away. A big white kind of retriever or something. And he comes to me like dogs do: he walks on the beach, going left, going right, sniffing here and there. But he went straight for me. I stretched out my arm, and he sniffed my hand. I looked at the dog, and I thought, I want to be like this: straightforward, fearless, and tender. 
A couple of years later, my parents and I got some letters from my brother who had gone to India overland from Germany and ended up with Osho, who, at the time, was the antichrist for everybody. There was very bad press about him everywhere. Whatever you heard or saw was just horrendous. We thought, "Oh, my God, my older brother has gone nuts. We got to do something about it!" So, my parents decided to send me there just to check up on him. to take a look. To see if he was okay. If he was okay, fair enough. If he wasn't okay, try and persuade him to come home and leave all of this craziness behind. I went to India to the Osho ashram in March 1979. I took one step into that place, and I thought, "I don't ever want to go anywhere else ever again." That's how [my journey] really started. At the time, I was 18. It hit me hard.
Ever since that moment, my sole viewpoint in life is spiritual development. For me in the first few years, and then—after I started teaching in the early and mid-nineties—also for my students. This is what I'm concerned with: spiritual growth. People waking up with me. Waking me up. Being present, showing people how to be present, how to deal with themselves, and how to live a beautiful contented, happy, conscious, and peaceful life.
This is my whole purpose, but at the same time, I am not out there in space. Thinking only about all these things. I'm a super simple person, very simple-minded. I'm here living in a small Greek village with about a thousand people, a very traditional place. It's super easy. I love everybody. The people like me, we can talk about the weather, about potatoes. We can talk about nothing at all. We can have a glass of whiskey together. I'm really a very simple-minded person. 
My intention is to do everything in life with a spiritual attitude. If you do a mundane thing with a spiritual attitude, it becomes like a prayer, a meditation, a celebration of life. And if you do something "spiritual" with a mundane attitude, it just becomes a waste of time.

DIR: I love that because when we practice Reiki, we have trouble accepting our "regular" life. We keep it separate versus seeing our everyday life as practice. The other thing we do is overcomplicating it. What is your perception of Reiki right now? 
FAP: Reiki is the simplest thing in life at all. I learned Reiki in 1992. I became a teacher in 1993 and started teaching after five, six months or so after I digested all of that. I thought Reiki was this complicated thing. Then seven years later, I came to my third Reiki teacher to Chiyoko Yamaguchi. When we asked her a complicated question, she always looked at us and said, "You think too much." Like a grandma would say to you and not like, somebody's arrogant from a place of "I know better than you, and you will learn one day when you're my age." Don't think so much. Reiki is such a simple thing. It's the simplest thing in the world. You know how it works? She said, "It goes like this: on [places his hand on his body], off [lifts his hand from the body]." That's all you need to know. Go out and touch people. There's nothing you need to do: no rituals, no prayers, no symbols, no nothing just: on, off. This is how I practice it. 
And this is how I practice it here in the village too. In all the Greek villages, at least the ones on the islands that I know of, people get nicknames. And they get them very quickly, but they stick…. My nickname in the village is the German doctor. This is how people see me. When somebody has an injury or feels sick, they come, and [my wife and I] treat them. We don't do anything spiritual, like talking about energy and all that. We go, Okay. Sit down or lay down and so on. And that's it. It's very simple. Reiki is very, very simple. I completely avoid all the esoteric stuff when I talk about it—not only with simple-minded villagers—but in general, because we don't need it. It's not necessary. 

DIR: Agree. Reiki is so simple, but that doesn't mean it's not deep. In Western culture, we often confuse simple with shallow or uninteresting, but Reiki has a lot of depth. Can you talk about that?
FAP: The only thing that really matters is what you have here now and what you have and what you are here and now. Just you, in your simplicity, breathing in, breathing out. That's it. Nothing else matters: tomorrow never comes; yesterday is gone. So, what have we got? We've got this moment. In this moment, we have a choice. Whether we want to spend this moment dreaming or being present. And Reiki is a wonderful tool to help you be present in this moment. All bodywork is like that, really, because touch anchors both the person who gives the treatment and the one who receives it in the present.

DIR: I love that concept of touch as an anchor. Often, we're touching to heal, to do something anchoring both of us in the moment. That is beautiful.
FAP: Yeah. Let's say somebody experienced something traumatic. You give them a hug. The more you hold them in your arms, the same thing happens. They immediately come to the present and maybe come out of their traumatic movement. They come back to the now. And when you're in the now, you're okay. 
Reiki brings you here. And when we are here, what problem do we have here? We don't have any problems. Problems are always either far ahead or far behind.

DIR: And when you're in the middle of a problem, you're present. You have to be.
FAP:  Right. For example, when you have an accident, suddenly everything turns into slow motion. You function perfectly. You do everything right. And then afterward, when it's finished…. [it's another thing.]
The first and foremost thing about Reiki is that it brings both the giver and the receiver into the present moment. And only in the present moment can things change. Things can happen.
The next thing people often get confused about is that they think, "Uh, this or that person is such a great healer!" Somebody asked me recently, "Who's the greatest healer on the planet at the moment?" And I said, "You know, I will tell you who it is. It's the human body. The human body is the greatest healer." 
It's not the Reiki person or the shaman, or someone else who does the healing. The body heals itself if it can. But there are obstacles to healing, and those must be removed. And this is what the Reiki person or the shaman does. He energizes the body so that those obstacles can be removed. In terms of Reiki, those obstacles are toxicity, and the removal happens by detoxing. The body begins to detox, and then healing happens if it's still possible.
When the time is up, the time is up. You can stand on your head; do all sorts of tricks, and it's not going to work. The important thing for us as Reiki [practitioners] to understand is that this is not our business. We're not here to decide who stays and who goes. We don't know what the situation for our client is. We know nothing. We may know that they have a certain illness, but we don't know why they have it. We don't know what purpose that may serve in the long run… You don't know where they are on their journey from ignorance to self-realization. And this is not for you to judge. All we do is place our hands on that person and trust that the healing will happen in due time. Whenever that might be.

DIR: I resonate very strongly with this. There is a lot of pressure on Reiki practitioners to "diagnose" or "read" the situation in some lineages. What advice will you give to a practitioner who feels they need to get the "healing" right?
FAP: In Jikiden Reiki, what we learned to do is called in Japanese byosen, the body's reaction to the incoming energy. We evaluate with the perception in our hands. So there's some kind of natural diagnosis happening, but it's not medical. And it's not that we look for it either. It's just perception the same way that you say, put your hand in the fridge, and you know that it's cold. You don't have to sit there and think, "Oh, I'm going to check the fridge from the inside and see what that temperature is." No, you just put your hand inside, and you know, "Uh, cold!" It's like that. 
From an Asian point of view, they would say your ego is not required in the work at all. Now, if we define this from an Oriental way, it becomes very uncomfortable. So, from a Western, let's say psychological understanding, maybe we think of ego as the negative aspects of our psycho-emotional selves. Arjava is egoistic. He thinks only of himself. He wants more and more money! He is like this. He is an a$#*!
From an Oriental point of view, because the Japanese are Buddhist and they believe in emptiness being the source of everything, they believe that there is no separate identity, no separate self. There is no ego. That ego is the only thing that doesn't exist. The only thing that is not [ego] is that spaciousness. That is your presence, that blue sky. Everything else is clouds passing in that blue sky. 
So, if I, during the treatment, go and do all sorts of stuff, the Japanese traditional Reiki practitioner would say, "Get the hell out of there. What are you doing there? This is not an ego trip here. You're supposed to just be emptying. Let that pass through you and leave it up to people upstairs." That's how they would look at it there. From a Japanese point of view, ego is everything that we would call "I." Everything that defines us has nothing to do with a Reiki treatment. You leave that outside.

DIR: Which is a practice per se—and it's hard! But the good news is that, in time, you start feeling a little bit of that. For me, emptiness also means inner spaciousness. We're so crammed with things, by creating the little space with meditation and Reiki practice is such a relief—because we always think of practitioners helping others, but we must start with ourselves. So, I love the concept of emptiness. 
Once we were talking about Osho, you mentioned something that I love. When I asked you how the Osho ashram was, you laughed at me because I imagined you attending like 300 orgies. And you're like, "Nathalie, every teacher is a mirror." Would you care to elaborate on the concept of the teacher as a mirror when it comes to Reiki?
FAP: Not only is the teacher a mirror, but everybody in every situation in life is a mirror. This pandemic situation is a mirror. Let's start here because we are all concerned with this at the moment. 
Let's say you have some fear of survival during the COVID situation; that's going to come up. If you have some unethical business ideas in the COVID situation, that will come up. Whatever there is inside, whatever is hiding under the surface will come up. It's like, you're looking at this thing all the time, and you see yourself. So, what is required of us to do is to be aware of what is happening: when you're being mirrored, when to be reflective, to look, not to judge.
If you're in the teacher's role, then, of course, that becomes vital. Because, first of all, you are mirroring your students, but they also mirror you. It's not one-way traffic. It's two mirrors looking at each other. Two pieces of emptiness looking at each other. That's an amazing thing. And it requires great awareness not to project anything into the other. You cannot ask your students to do this practice, but you can ask it of yourself, so you don't project into your students and don't bring them down. You don't force your worldview on them but give them space and encouragement to always reflect. To look at themselves, learn from all their clients, from all their friends, from all situations. This is the real job of a Reiki teacher. [Teaching the system] is the smaller part.

DIR: What you are saying is very important, but often training consists of attunement and a manual or a video, or a few hours of in-person training. What do you think about the current state of Reiki training today?
FAP: What I think is just my personal opinion. I always filter everything through the wisdom of my own heart. I learned that very early on. But one of the things I learned from Osho is don't believe anything that anybody says, but always check it. To know if it is valuable inside or not. If it works for you.
So, I would say, as a Reiki teacher, what do I feel comfortable with? How do I feel comfortable teaching it? I feel comfortable teaching Reiki in person. I don't feel comfortable teaching Reiki online. So, I don't do it, but it's not a judgment. If you're comfortable doing online courses, that is your business, and you have to live with it…
For me, it's not an option. I don't like it, and I don't do it. That's what I'm very happy [online] talking to people and discussing things around the topic of Reiki, but no actual teaching. I wait until I can touch my students again... For me, it's almost more important to go and eat lunch together during the workshop because that's where you really see what is happening inside people when there are no facets, no concepts. When there are no roles of teacher and student, when we are all the same, I think is when you really see things changing. To me, that only happens in the presence of one another. This is how I see it. I know that many people like to teach online. It's easier. It's convenient. You save all the airline fees, the hotels, the venues. I understand all that. People need Reiki a lot. I understand all that, but I'm not going to do it. I wait. I prefer to starve.
DIR: No, please, don't starve!
FAP: This is my truth. And I'm not saying it's the truth. There is no truth. There's only subjectivity. What I suggest is that you go inside and see, "What do you feel comfortable with?" And then you do that. Don't listen to anybody else. There's nobody smarter than you. There's nobody who knows better than you. Ask yourself what to do, how to do it, and then you are good. 
In our tradition, the teaching guidelines are quite serious and severe, but teaching, let's day starts with Shoden-Reiki 1. One then goes to Okuden-Reiki two. And then the different levels of the teachers. To become a fully certified teacher will take at least two or three years under tutelage. Plus, we have rules about how many hours of treatments one has to document in writing. It's like 120 hours of treatments with at least 40 different clients. You have to document it all and send it to the Institute. And then we decide whether we take somebody. So, we take that very seriously. You cannot do this on the weekend with us because we don't feel comfortable with that.

DIR: But I think this is good for the student. I got those eight-hour training, and when I started offering treatments, I was so insecure. I didn't have the proper training and support. And when I called to have a mentoring session, the answer I got was, "You don't need mentoring; you need a session to balance your chakras!" I knew then I was not going to do my Reiki master with that teacher. I feel we want to go through levels fast, but then we crumble. We need to start building a solid foundation. I think training for more hours is a better idea and waiting before becoming a teacher immediately.
FAP: Let's look at the traditional way that this was done. When I learned from Chiyoko sensei, you couldn't even ask to become a teacher. You would learn and learn and learn and learn. At some point, she would say to you, "Okay, now it's time." That was the traditional way. Of course, the Western world is not going to work like that. People don't understand this concept, especially where you live [in New York City.] People are so competitive, and they want everything right now. 
But what I'm saying is to get a good and solid Reiki education. There's no rush anyway. Why do you want to reach something? There's nothing to reach. You are not a better person if you're a Reiki master or a Reiki 1 practitioner. You're the same. It makes no difference. The difference is made by the work that you have done.
It's the inner work that we do [that makes the difference.] And, of course, the practical work that we do.
In Lesvos Island, where we live, we built a dojo training center. In the summer, that place is open for treatments every day, between 4:00 and 7:00 PM. Sometimes there are 30 people giving treatments every day all summer. So, we have maybe three, four, or five clients. And then a whole bunch of people, four or five on each table treating and treating, learning and learning. This is how you learn: by practicing. 

DIR: You mentioned your teacher Chiyoko Yamaguchi. Can you explain who she was?
FAP: Chiyoko Yamaguchi was my third teacher. And after I met her, I just taught what I had learned from her and left all the other [learnings] behind. She was a student of Hayashi sensei and learned Reiki from him in 1937. By the time I met her in 2000, she had 60 some years of daily practice. 
I asked her once how many treatments had she done? She said two or three every day for 63 years. I calculated it once. That's a lot. She was like an encyclopedia. You could ask her anything, "What do you do with fibromyalgia?" "Oh, yeah, in 1952, I treated this woman, and you do this. And then you do this and that." 
When I met her, I was already a well-known Reiki teacher. I had written three or four books. Everybody at that time knew who I was. And she said, "Okay, so you've been practicing for a while. Do you give treatments? I said, "Yes." She said, "Have you witnessed any healing?" I said, "Yes." She said, "Well, what?" I was like on the witness stand. I couldn't believe it because usually, Japanese people are not so inquisitive. "I'd been treating people with cancer or with whatever." "Have they gotten better?" she asked. I said, "Yes." She said, "I always ask people who are teaching Reiki, do you do treatments? Usually, they say, "No, I'm too busy teaching. And then I ask him, what in the world do you teach if you have no experience." 
I think that sums it up here. If we teach, especially if we teach, we must continue doing treatments. We must learn from every new client. The moment you stop learning, you're dead. You're finished. You might as well stay home and retire.
In my Reiki practice, we do it the same way as [all Japanese arts.] The focus is on the work. If you do your work, you progress. If you don't, you don't. It is not a judgment. It's not for everybody. But Reiki is not something that you need to take off some degree or something. It's not about that. It's about reaching a certain maturity in your practice, and you get that only by practicing. It's as simple as that. 

DIR: Often, I get questions, and my answer is to go and practice. Why? Because I can talk my head out, but it will still just be a concept. If you don't practice, you will come back with the same question because some questions are only answered by practice. And only have specific questions when you practice. 
Changing course, I like to ask my guests about their biggest Reiki oops. Because most practitioners look at someone like you and think you are so advanced that you get everything right all the time. You went to Japan, have practiced for years, wrote books… "I will never be like him!" 
But Reiki teachers are human too. Can you share one mistake that ended up being a great lesson?
FAP: That list is long! I will tell you the one I did regarding my writing. I have no journalistic training at all. In 1994, a long time ago, I found the Usui memorial in Tokyo, which at that time we thought nobody had ever seen before, no foreigner. We translated the inscription. It said something about the Usui sensei's life that he had a very loving character, and he was humorous and was a very good speaker. And the people were hanging on to his kimono to get some of his energy, that he was married, had two kids, and so on. And that we should follow the legacy of the Meiji emperor. Period. A full period. The next sentence: Kyo dakewa. Ikarus na. Shinpai suna… the Reiki principles. So when I read it, I thought, "Wow, the Reiki principles are the legacy of the Meiji emperor." And I wrote that.

DIR: Oh, that is the source of the confusion. [Laughs] I've been researching that, and I kept hitting a wall every time I was trying to find the relationship between the Meiji emperor and the Reiki precepts!
FAP: It wrote that. And then, just after the book was out, we found out that those two parts of the inscription have nothing to do with one another. That was one of the big mistakes I made. And even now, people in their classes say that the Reiki principles come from the Meiji emperor. This was my fault, my fuck up. Sorry guys!
Usui sensei put them together from what we can call the zeitgeist, the spirit of the days. That was kind of common in spiritual circles. I researched lots of other spiritual groups, and they all have these kinds of precepts. It's a very Japanese thing. Even elementary schools will have some kind of ethical backbone or precepts hanging in the principal's office or general assembly.

DIR: This may have been my favorite mistake ever! It's precious! 
Talking about another thing, Reiki practitioners are often confused: the symbols. Some lineages draw them. Some meditate with them. How do you work with the Reiki symbols? 
FAP: The Reiki symbols are tools given to the student at a certain level after they've acquired certain skills. In Jikiden Reiki, the first symbol [is given in] the first level. We get the other symbols in the second level. It's all done differently. 
Perhaps one thing that is good to say is that we seem to think that we are initiated into a degree or initiated into a symbol in our Western Reiki lineages. And if you ask a traditional Japanese Reiki practitioner or Reiki teacher, they will say that you are not initiated into a degree or a symbol, but into Reiki again and again and again.
In most Reiki lineages, there are four symbols. There are the three for the second degree and the master symbol. In Japanese lineages, there is no master symbol. It was added by students of Takata sensei after she passed away. There was recently was an interview with Phyllis Furumoto [Mrs. Takata's granddaughter and heir] before she died where she finally said it. I've been saying it for 20 years, but nobody believed me. 

DIR: I love the difference that you made: we are initiated in Reiki over and over again, not attuned to a symbol. 
FAP: The symbols are very specific. They have a purpose. You use the first symbol for this, the second for that, the third for that. You don't mix them in the traditional school because they have each a purpose of their own. There's no need to mix anything. It's not that mixing is bad or will make you explode or something—it's not necessary. 

DIR: Every lineage has a different approach. I love minimalism, so the Japanese style fits me better. 
FAP: If you ask me, "What kind of Reiki do you practice?" I will say, look, the Reiki that comes out of my hands doesn't have a label. It's just pure unpolluted life energy. And [it's the same as] what comes out of Nathalie's hands, out of everybody who's listening or not, out of every mother's hands when she's treating her child. There is no label. 
There is only a difference in practice and philosophy. Think of what we talked about earlier: the mirror. Look at the practice and choose the one that suits you. I have had a long history of Japanese culture in this life. I lived there for 12 years. I had my first Japanese girlfriend when I was 18. I have this predisposition to all things Japanese… So, I choose that [style]. But if you ask me if it's better than any other kind of Reiki… Ph my God! How can my Reiki be better than yours? Only somebody who doesn't understand the basics of Reiki would say that. Reiki does not have a label. If you think that you're better than somebody else, you really need to look at yourself, work on that first, and better not teach others.

DIR: I feel like I am going to quote you like 300 times in the future! I wanted to close the interview by discussing your two most recent books.
FAP: I published in November a Reiki book called One with Reiki. It explains Reiki's background: Japanese [culture and] spirituality. So, people who practice Reiki can understand it better. 
A few weeks ago, I published a book that's called …Is… about living in the present, being present, living a meditative and fun life. It has lots of breathing techniques, meditation techniques, etc. It's really a fun project. The editor was laughing. She said, "Oh, my! The word Reiki appears for the first time on page 156!" 
I wrote it because I see the Corona [pandemic] as a chance to do introspection, to grow. For self-realization and to do all the things that you have not done until now. Maybe some of which you have avoided until now. To fix problems that you might still have not addressed and let go of your baggage.

DIR: I've read a couple of chapters, and I really enjoyed the tone: it's joyful and warm.
FAP: For me, what is important…is to have awareness. To be present in everything. Otherwise, you cannot do your practice. Reiki is the same. But what you also need is tenderness. Tenderness for the people that you're working with, but also for the steering wheel of your car while you're driving, or for the rocks, or for the animals—for everything. If you mix awareness, mindfulness, tenderness, and kindness, that's really an incredible mixture. And that will break your heart open like a pomegranate.
DIR: Your appreciation of tenderness really comes through in the book. It's a word we don't hear a lot about Reiki. We hear a lot about doing techniques, but tenderness is much more important than perfect technique. I'm just grateful we can have these conversations and your wisdom with the world and share your tenderness. Thank you so much for all your time and wisdom!
FAP: Thank you!

My team at the uni. We loved taking pics in black and white because it felt more artsy ;-)

When I was in university, one of my teachers decided to make a deal with the whole class: he would not fail any of us as long as we did the assignments.

The class was on TV and cinema production. The fact that we could not fail didn't make us lazy or careless. On the contrary, it gave us the freedom to take risks and explore themes we would have never considered if we had to be concerned with grades. I remember writing absurd scripts, creating surreal backgrounds from scratch, and learning how to make TV blood (ketchup with grenadine). As a team, we came together without fights. We even figured out how to fake the explosion of a car. We had fun. We also made tons of mistakes, but we learned from them, and those lessons served us well for the rest of our lives.

However, every day of my life, I am a little afraid of failing: of saying the wrong things, giving a half-ass Reiki session, or running out of money when I am old. It's not just me—I see it all around me, constant worry. People are afraid of losing their jobs, of not being good enough, of not being loved.

What if we could do the same in life that my teacher did in class: permit ourselves never to fail. Take the pressure off every decision we make. Understand that if we quit our job, there will always be another one. If we had a fight, we could always reach out. That even if we become who we always wanted to be only for a minute, the rest of our life is not a failure—it's just what we needed to get to those glorious 60 seconds.

A difficult task, and one I am working hard on by meditating and doing healing sessions—but most importantly, by reminding myself constantly that life is an exploration, an adventure, and I can't fail at it. That success is what I define.